Mad Men C to Z S2E5: The New Girl Transcript

Below, find the full, human-edited podcast transcript for S2:E5 - The New Girl.

You can listen to the full podcast episode here.

Visit the website episode page for The New Girl, with more details, timestamps, Sterling Lines, and Double Dip survey question.

Mad Men C to Z Podcast Transcript for S2:E5 – The New Girl
 
Jenna: Hi, I'm Jenna.
Steve: And I'm Steve. Welcome to All Things Mad Men, from Chip and Dip to Zou Bisou.
 
Jenna: We started this podcast to connect to fans like us who pick up something new with every rewatch.
 
Steve: Be advised, our discussions may include spoilers so we can talk about character arcs all the way through the final season.
 
Jenna: We break down each episode of Mad Men, from the pivotal moments to our favorite scenes and lines. Let's get started with Mad Men, C to Z!
 
Season 2, Episode 5, the New Girl. This episode was written by Robin Veith and directed by Jennifer Getzinger.
 
Steve: The episode opens with Pete and Trudy in the doctor's office. They want to have a baby, but they've had trouble conceiving, so they're talking to the doctor about fertility.
 
Jenna: This doctor is played by John Goetz. He's recognizable from tons of projects including The Fly, The Social Network, The Last of Us, and in possibly the oddest call out ever, he was Gus, who kept trying to date Christina Applegate's character in Don't Tell Mom the Babysitter's Dead.

 
I notice in this scene we don't usually see Trudy so uncertain, but at the doctor here you can see her answers are showing how much she wants this to work.
 
She starts out by name dropping. She asks for reassurance about their situation. She's trying to get the doctor to like them. She's looking for any edge she can possibly get here.
 
Steve: Yeah, I think the acting is really good because it portrays her desperation. She's desperate to have a baby. She wants to answer the questions correctly and just do everything in her power to make this happen.
 
Jenna: In the next scene, we see Freddy and Don coming into the office and they hear women squealing. Fred immediately diagnoses this as either a visit from the stork or De Beers, and he's right. We see Joan walking by, beaming, and she flashes her left hand with a giant diamond on it.
 
Steve: Yeah, it's just a quick scene to show us Joan's fiance has popped the question and she's getting all the due attention from the office ladies.
 
Jenna: Back at the doctor's office, we see Pete with the doctor by himself. He said he would ask the more intimate questions privately.
 
And when Pete is asked about his sex life, he's defensive. He goes, I'm a normal red blooded American male, okay?
 
And the doctor says that fertility has nothing to do with manhood. When the doctor asks if he wants to have a child, Pete really gets defensive about that too. What kind of question is that? What man doesn't want a child? So you can see he really has his guard up here.
 
Steve: Yeah. And it's an interesting scene because as it progresses, it kind of morphs from these questions about fertility and why they're having trouble conceiving into almost a therapy session for Pete.
 
As the doctor starts to pull, poke, and prod a little bit at Pete's insecurities concerns, it ends up very much seeming like a therapy session.
 
Jenna: The doctor says that working in advertising must be fun. And Pete says, are you kidding? I'm an account man. I spend half my day tiptoeing around creative crybabies and the other half with ungrateful turnips who just fell off the truck.
 
[Laughter]
 
I'm completely replaceable. Throw in this baby thing, the economy contracting, my in laws, It's a lot. My father just passed. So now suddenly, Pete has this whole host of issues, and we realize, you know, he doesn't talk about this with anybody.
 
And the doctor says of his father passing, it's a difficult moment in the life cycle, but we are part of a continuum. And Pete says, so maybe I'm the end of the line.
 
And I'm not sure if it's that he doesn't want a baby or his relationship with his father who says, you know, we gave you your name.
He doesn't seem super sad that he might be the end of the line. What was your sense here?
 
Steve: Yeah, I think, you know, the first thing that jumps out at me is it's all about Pete. So he takes these generic questions personally as slights to himself when really they're not.
 
And then as it morphs into his own therapy session, I agree with you. I think we start to see his uncertainty. And I wonder if maybe Pete's never had a model for parenthood in the traditional optimal sense, the way Trudy sees it.
 
So maybe that explains some of his hesitation that he's not looking to repeat the cycle. He had an obvious tense relationship with his father.
 
Jenna: That makes sense, especially when we talk about how Don has no sense of what family is. But Pete, in a completely different way, also might not really have a sense of what family is.
 
Steve: Yeah, or. Or family is broken. To Pete, not full of love and support,
this obviously disturbs him as an adult. You know, what it really means to have a child. And it's not this ideal fantasy the way it is for Trudy.
 
 
Jenna: Back at the office, we get a quick scene with Joan surrounded by other secretaries. She's showing off her ring, talking about her engagement.
This is the thing she has wanted since before the pilot. And now she is enjoying it fully.
 
And as the phones are ringing, Don calls from his office, Miss Holloway, those aren't wedding bells. And you see Joan shooing everybody away.
 
Bobbie Barrett is on line one.
 
Steve: It's kind of an interesting scene, too, because Joan is so often the one telling people to get back to work and focus on their professional responsibilities.
 
But this is a great example where Joan's wrapped up in the moment and all the attention and loses sight of the fact that she's covering Don's desk.
 
Jenna: So Bobbie is calling Don from Sardi’s. This restaurant opened in 1921. It moved to its current location on Broadway in 1927. There's a tradition of hanging portraits of theater stars on the restaurant walls that continues today.
 
So for a fun hidden Mickey, look for a portrait of Jimmy Barrett behind Bobbie in some of the restaurant scenes.
 
 
Steve: Bobbie’s looking to have Don join the celebration at Sardis because Jimmy's gotten his show.
 
Jenna: Don seems kind of reluctant to show up. He says he's working, but ultimately he does go to meet up with her.
 
Steve: Yeah, it does feel like Don wrestles with the temptation of Bobbie a lot. So he's trying to be good. He knows he shouldn't, but it's clear he finds her very attractive and interesting.
 
And it seems like Bobbie is very perceptive and understands exactly the calculus that's going through Don's head and is working to get him to come over to the dark side and to join her, and making threats or menacing him in some way, to try and nudge and encourage him to come the way she wants.
 
Jenna: Yeah, she says, I'm about to change my mind. Like, oh, I don't care if you show up or not. And he does, in fact, show up. And they sit together.
 
Jimmy's gone home to sulk. She talks about him a little bit. This pilot is a big opportunity he's bound to ruin. And I feel like she has such a funny mix of optimism and realism because she's letting herself be excited about this, even though she understands there are going to be curve balls, because Jimmy is Jimmy.
 
Steve: Yeah, I think she's a legitimate business manager. And I think in the scene when Don calls that out and says, you know, you really do his business, it's almost like a surprise to him that she's not just pretending to be his manager.
 
She truly is his manager, and in more ways than just sort of the strict, conventional manager role. And I like it because it feels to me like Don is seeing Bobbie for what she is, at least professionally.
 
Jenna: And speaking of business people, Rachel Menken shows up at Sardi's with a man. And when she comes over to where Don and Bobbie are sitting, it seems dutiful - she's not pleased to see him. Don stands up and greets her.
 
Miss Menken. And she corrects him.
Actually, it's Mrs. Katz. This is my husband.
 
She says to Tilden, her husband, she says, Mr. Draper's firm did some work for us a while back. And their relationship is reduced to this sentence.
 
Don is staring at her and so discombobulated for a second, he completely forgets to introduce Bobbie Barrett or do anything other than just look at Rachel Menken. Rachel Katz.
 
Steve: Yeah. And I think Bobbie is picking up on all of this. You know, she's intelligent, she's observant, so she can tell there is. There's a connection and something more here. And she can see that Don is off his game.
 
Jenna: Oh, let's be clear. Rachel understands exactly what this is, too.
Neither of these women are under any illusions. They both know what's happening and what has happened.
 
And now we learn what happened to Rachel. But I have to say, I do not get the feeling that Tilden Katz can keep up with her.
 
Steve: Yeah, I had the same vibe as, almost disappointment that Rachel had this chance to pursue a different path, and now she's ended up on the traditional path. You know, she. She's found her proper Jewish husband.
 
He seems rather bland and uninteresting in the small glimpse we get of him. And I, as a viewer, just couldn't help but feeling a little disappointment. There's bigger and better things out there for Rachel, and she's settling at this point.
 
Jenna: And I notice even in the middle of this extremely awkward encounter, Don still tries to engage Rachel in conversation. So she moved her business to a different ad firm. And he says something about, is Gray still taking the credit for all of our work?
 
And she won't even answer the question. She just looks at Bobbie and says, he's all business, isn't he? And as she leaves, she says, well, you two enjoy working together.
 
As ever, she has all the equipment to completely just dissolve Don into a puddle.
 
Steve: I also like how Bobbie handles herself in this scene. She's not put out. She's not petulant. There's no sign of jealousy, chasing and inquiring after who Rachel is when she leaves.
 
Bobbie's doing her thing. And knowing how realistic and pragmatic she is about things, she knows there are Rachel's and Don's past. And she's bumped into one. And it's not a problem for Bobbie in any way.
 
Jenna: So they decide to stay at the restaurant. And they're talking,
and Bobbie tells us a little more about her work philosophy. She takes credit for getting the pilot happening. She talks about the deal she made and the neckline she wore to make it.
 
She says, this is America. Pick a job and then become the person who does it.
And we get our truth call out here. When Don says, well, that's true, and that's exactly what he did.
 
He picked a job and became the person who does it. And I think this is more than anything what draws these two people to each other in the way that Roger and Joan maybe aren't ultimately right for each other.
 
They really understand each other. And Bobbie and Don seem pretty similar in that way, even though Bobbie doesn't know a lot about Don's past.
 
Steve: Yeah, it feels from very different spots. They've had to take on a - an identity and to blaze a trail with that identity for themselves. And that meant leaving behind conventions, expectations, or backgrounds. So, yeah, it does feel like a very parallel path they're running there.
 
Jenna: And Bobbie seems to try to get a little bit emotionally closer here. She talks about the thrill of negotiating, how it's hand to hand combat. And she's surprised when Don says that he doesn't find it exciting.
 
So she says, well, what do you like?
And then she looks at him and says, you can't even answer. And he says the answer is huge.
 
But this is a real mystery. We talked previously about how Don didn't have hobbies.
I think we could make a case for cars womanizing in movies across the series as Don's interests. But he continues to attract attention for his talent and his good looks and yet still be relatively anonymous.
 
We don't see a favorite color, a political party, a sport, a style of music.
He cultivates a personality that could become anybody intentionally.
And Bobbie asks him if he likes the ocean, and he says yes. Yes, he does. So he can give her that he likes the ocean.
 
It's really shocking that he can be so intimate and yet never be intimate.
 
Steve: You don't get the sense of any emotional commitment to that answer or passion. It's. It's just, oh, yeah, I like the ocean. It's like, okay, you know, who doesn't? It really does feel Don is always holding his cards very close to his chest and very careful about keeping people on the outside looking in rather than letting someone get in behind.
 
Jenna: So Bobbie invites him to go driving with her. They're drinking out of a bottle, they're tipsy, and Bobbie talks more about things that they like.
 
She says, foreign movies are so sexy. And Don offers La Notte, which is a 1961 Italian film about an unhappy couple navigating a variety of social groups.
So, you know, not at all relevant to Don.
 
Bobbie says, I feel so good.
And Don, similar to the wife in La Notte, says, I don't feel a thing.
 
Steve: He says, I don't feel a thing. But he's clearly buzzed, and it looks to me like he's having a nice time and he's enjoying Bobbie's company. He's chosen to go to the beach with her.
 
So I was wondering, do you really think Don doesn't feel a thing in that moment?
 
Jenna: I have that question about him constantly.
I don't know what he really wants, and I don't think he really knows what he wants.
 
And here, whenever he's talking about his feelings, I think.
I think the womanizing, like the drinking and the smoking, is a tool to numb him from dealing with any type of feeling.
 
So I did actually believe him. I agree he looks a little more relaxed in the car than he did at the restaurant, but he does not seem to process his feelings.
He doesn't seem to give attention to them. He just is in the moment he’s in.
 
Steve: He does definitely have an in the moment quality,
but he also seems so calculating, and everything's always being triangulated all the time. So it's kind of an odd combination.
 
Jenna: Agreed.
 
Steve: He's a weird duck, in any event, drinking out of the bottle. And the inevitable car crash happens.
 
Jenna: They're both okay, but they're cut and bruised. And we see them at the police station where Don has to pay $150 for bail, and he only has $63.
So he and Bobbie had just been talking about the thrill of negotiating. And he tries to negotiate to pay later, offers a subtle bribe even, but the cop is not having it. It's jail or it's all the money right now.
 
So now we see him make a phone call. And there is the greatest shot ever of a pair of women’s shoes before the camera pans up and we see who came to save Don.
It's Peggy. He called Peggy.
 
Steve: It's not quite so surprising if you start to think through who could he possibly call?
 
You know, obviously he can't call Betty. He can't call Roger because, you know, he's mixing with a client. And they - Roger's given him a specific warning about that. Or maybe it was Bert.
 
So. So he turns to Peggy. Peggy. Someone who almost owes him a solid in some ways.
 
Jenna: Peggy says she brought $110, which is all she could get on short notice.
And then she looks over and she sees Bobbie Barrett with Don. And Bobbie is completely disheveled. And Peggy looks away. She keeps her face neutral, and she says nothing.
 
I don't know how many people would show up and issue no judgment, no concern,
completely blank. Just, here's the bail money you asked for.
 
I mean, I feel like she's really showing up for Don in exactly the way that he needs right now.
 
Steve: Yeah, but I wouldn't conflate the absence of judgment from having judgment. My perception is she's got her judgment, but she's keeping it to herself. And she's putting on that professional veneer.
 
She knows providing that blank slate is the way to go here, regardless of whatever feeling she might have inside.
 
Jenna: Yes, that's my point. When we look at Pete and how he can't possibly keep his feelings concealed, but Don has that ability. And here we see Peggy showing it, too.
So, yes, she definitely has an opinion. And she understands the assignment.
 
Steve: Yeah. And that holding her cards close, I think, is another parallel between the Peggy and Don characters. It's interesting to compare and contrast the two of them.
 
 
Jenna: The next scene is so great because it is not what we know to be true about the Mad Men world.
Peggy is driving.
Peggy has rescued Don Draper.
Peggy is cleaning up the whole situation. She's super confident:
Don't be sick in the car. Keep her awake. I know the faster way to the airport. Yes, of course Bobbie can stay the night with me. She's got a fix for Bobbie's clothes.
She can pick up her dry cleaning first thing in the morning.
I mean, Peggy is on top of this situation.
 
Steve: Yeah, Peggy's totally the fixer in this scene.
And it's interesting because we've seen a few other scenes where something's happened, and Don's been the one to start barking orders and getting people moving and in motion. And in this one, he's very much in the passenger seat compared to Peggy, both literally and figuratively.
 
And it is great writing because at each turn where Don is trying to crawl back into the driver's seat or assert some sort of control, Peggy's reminding him of sort of how things are going to go. And she's correct in every case.
 
So her. Her plan is better than Don's plan. And eventually he seems to accept that she's got the better thoughts.
 
I especially like when Peggy says that in the future, he can't treat her badly because she reminds him of this incident.
 
And I thought that was a great example of Peggy thinking ahead as to the implications of this evening and how that might affect her relationship with Don back in the office.
 
Jenna: And when she says that line, he stares at her and he's surprised by how right she is, how honest she is. And she isn't accusing him or angry. She's being direct because she knows she could be a casualty of his own errors.
 
And then she continues, this can be fixed. She's not flustered. She's not judging or offended. She mentions the gas money, but otherwise, she's not talking about how much he owes her.  
And Mad Men fans, he never says thank you.
 
 
Steve: Yeah, Peggy's large and in charge and really shows intelligence, competence, judgment on an evening where maybe Don Draper doesn't display those characteristics quite so much.
 
Jenna: I noticed, too, that Don is really brusque. He barks at Bobbie, wake up. There's no tenderness to her. And he's also focused on the. All the details of the fix. They're co conspirators here.
 
And when Bobbie does, in fact, fall asleep, Don directs Peggy: No one at the office can know about this. And he lies to her. He goes, it's business.
Don, it's not business. And they both know that.
 
 
Steve: The next scene is Don arriving home in the wee hours of the morning.
He removes his shoes so he can quietly go upstairs and comes into the bedroom, but Betty is wide awake and confronts him about his absence. Don tells her that he was in an accident.
 
And then the conversation proceeds from there with Betty still being angry and frustrated that he didn't call. She had no idea where he was.
 
Jenna: Betty's response is very natural. We see her shift from being really angry to being really concerned.
 
And he, within the space of maybe 45 seconds, is this typical chameleon. He avoids the issue, has excuses for why he didn't call.
 
He blames her for being hysterical. He needed to think clearly. You know, he confesses his high blood pressure, cares for her by not embarrassing her, having to go to jail.
 
And it's all in a very short space. So he's just bombarding her with words and reasons while he's actually communicating very little.
 
Steve: And it almost feels like Don's reading off a script he's written,
you know, for his lies and cover story here without any real emotional investment or paying much attention to how Betty is reacting, because there's nothing Betty does here that's hysterical, or even close to it.
 
I mean, she. She hardly raises her voice. So it's interesting again that it feels like he's, you know, on autopilot here.
 
Jenna: And Betty's father has high blood pressure, so that makes her extra concerned. And to her credit, when he's talking about, I didn't want you to have to leave the kids with Francine in the middle of the night, she says, I don't care what the neighbors think, and I don't care about the car. You promised you wouldn't disappear like that anymore.
 
And so for Betty, this feels like a huge breakthrough because this is her being honest and direct and not caring about image. At least she says she doesn't, which is really,
really unusual for her character.
 
And when she says that, Don touches her face,
and that's a loving gesture, but he keeps breaking that promise to her.
 
Steve: I kind of read it as just in the moment, her love and concern for her husband outweighs those other considerations.
 
It's something I really like about the writing of this relationship. We know it has problems and challenges, but there's genuine love and affection that appears as well and concern. So it's that messy, complicated relationship as opposed to something more clear cut.
 
 
Jenna: So now we see Bobbie and Peggy in Peggy's apartment, and Bobbie takes up all the space.
She gets on the phone and calls Jimmy to say she's at a fat farm, which is why she's not coming home. And Peggy comes back with some food for Bobbie and Bobbie's dry cleaning.
 
We can see that Peggy is not the best hostess. So Trudy would be all over conversing with a guest, but she would not be discreet the way that Peggy is.
 
Bobbie tries to make conversation. She talks about how Marilyn Monroe will be at the Garden on Saturday night for the President's birthday, which was a memorable historical performance on May 19, 1962.
 
Peggy says she thinks most women would love to have Marilyn's problems. And this is that same error she made when she hired Annie instead of Rita for the commercial.
 
She assumes that beautiful, sexy people have trouble-free lives. But it's such a great window to her worldview. Because even though Peggy can see things that other people can't, she still has these blinders, too.
 
Steve: Speaking of, you know, beautiful people with glamorous lives, you know, Bobbie's in a bad way. She's got a huge shiner. She's got to cover up what she was doing with her husband.
 
But at no point do we see any sort of weakness or self pity on the part of Bobbie. She's managing the problem and in the midst of all this, has the thought to ask some questions about Peggy and just to understand what exactly is her relationship to Don.
 
Again, looking at the Bobbie character, it's just interesting how consistent she is. She is high powered and mission focused at all times, at her best, at her worst, you know, with a black eye in Peggy's apartment.
 
Jenna: And there are two other details I really like in this part of the episode.
Peggy is really awkward socially with people, so she has a lot of strengths, as we've seen. But she is looking at Bobbie and concerned about her health and says she tells a story about a little boy who had a headache after falling off a swing set and he died.
 
And she says that to Bobbie, which is, you know, okay, way to go, Peggy. That's maybe not what she needs to hear right now.
 
Then the second thing is that Bobbie says, I keep forgetting the accident. It seems strange to me.
And Peggy says, if you're lucky, it will disappear.
 
Which rather suggests that, you know, when these moments of crisis come upon you, the luckiest thing could be if the memory disappears.
 
Back in the office, we get to meet a new character. Don has a new secretary, Jane Siegel. Jane is played by Peyton List, recognizable as Lucy from As the World Turns from Gotham, the Tomorrow People, and The Rookie.
 
Steve: Jane dutifully ogles Joan's ring. And Joan is clearly very pleased with the ring. And then Joan starts to give Jane some tips about Don Draper, saying that he's impatient.
 
Jenna: I like the moment where Jane says to Joan, I'm a little bit clairvoyant, and I think you two are going to be very happy together.
Which is kind, but also completely ridiculous.
 
And Joan knows better, but the look on her face at that comment is so hopeful. This has been the plan all along to marry well. She wants to be very happy together. That happiness would be the icing on the top.
 
We see Joan helpful to Jane without being disrespectful to Don. She says, Mr. Draper is impatient. Don't let it intimidate you, which is really useful advice.
It's been about 2.5 seconds before Ken, Paul and Harry are crowding around Jane's desk.
 
Steve: Yeah, it's. It's kind of funny and predictable that they're coming over to ogle her.
 
Jenna: Their introductions are so great.
Ken Cosgrove, accounts.
Paul Kinsey, copywriter.
Harry Crane, married, which is also how Harry introduced himself to Peggy.
So I guess he thinks that everybody would be throwing themselves at him if he didn't announce this.
 
Steve: Yeah, he probably doesn't have much to worry about on that front. Although he did go astray one time.
 
As they're there talking to Jane, Don strolls in with a sling, gives almost no greeting at all to Jane, just hands her his hat and strides into his office. And Ken chases in after him.
 
Jenna: I'm gonna help you hold on to that one. Meaning Jane. And Don says he's not paying attention anymore until they last a month.
 
And spoiler just ahead, when you saw this character being introduced for the first time, did you think that Jane and Don might get together?
 
Steve: Yeah, I definitely think it's a possibility. Although the more I see how Don's not interested in sort of the very young, unaccomplished women, I start to think, okay, she's not really his type, even though she's obviously very pretty.
 
Jenna: I really appreciate that Mad Men doesn't go with that obvious choice. If you put Don with Joan or with Jane, it seems so predictable.
 
And it's a lot more interesting this way. And it also is interesting to remember that Jane does actually affect Don's life down the road in a few different ways. And he barely looks at her here.
 
Steve: Well, and to be fair to Don, he's got some things on his mind.
 
And Ken is about to ambush him with yet another one. Jimmy Barrett has called and says he wants to come in, no reason given.
 
Don's thoughts immediately jump to, oh, oh. He's found out about Bobbie and Don and asks Ken to put him off till Friday to buy time, presumably for Jimmy to cool down.
 
Jenna: So Don immediately calls Peggy's place. He's super bossy. He doesn't say thank you, no gratitude. He says, put Bobbie on.
 
And he's checking in about himself to see what Bobbie knows about Jimmy. And she reassures him that she's covered.
 
Steve: Yeah, and again, we see the confidence of Bobbie. She's not doubting herself. She's not asking a bunch of frantic questions. She's just, yeah, I'm on top of it. Everything went well.
 
She's okay. And I love that consistency in her character because I think in a lot of other writings, sometimes the characters change to fit the scenes or the stereotypes. And in this case, Bobbie's true, I think, to her, her character's nature, she's on top of things. She's mission focused, and she's tricked her husband.
 
Jenna: We see Bobbie and Peggy talking more, and it's clear that Bobbie can't understand why Peggy is helping them.
 
Bobbie's really about scorekeeping. Who owes her a favor, how much can she get from somebody. And here, she focuses on paying something back to Peggy,
while Don doesn't want to talk about it at all. And it's clear that Peggy has some steel in her, she's not going to confide in Bobbie about her reasons for helping Don.
 
Bobbie asks if Peggy is seeing him, and we don't get a sense that she's jealous, especially, or upset. Peggy says, he's done a lot for me. He made me a copywriter.
 
And Bobbie says something no one else has validated Peggy with. She says, I bet you made yourself a copywriter. All these books - gesturing around Peggy's apartment.
 
And Peggy is really strong, but she still attributes a lot of her power to Don's willingness to champion her. And this is a new frame.
 
Steve: Yeah, I think that's really a key comment that Bobbie says. And there's so much truth to it because we realize that as viewers, you know, we've seen that Peggy earned that promotion. It wasn't given to her. And in fact, there were all these obstacles in the way.
 
I like that Bobbie is trying to pump Peggy for information here. And again, if we think about Bobbie's character, it's a very transactional mindset.
 
You know, all these set pieces with Don.
She's negotiating and trying to extract what she wants in the moment, gathering information along the way that she can leverage in some future interaction.
 
I love the way Peggy is such a sphinx here in terms of giving her any information.
So it feels like Peggy has really mastered that information control lesson, and now it serves as a great defensive shield as Bobbie's trying to extract things from her.
 
Jenna: And Peggy offers Bobbie a new frame about Don, too. Bobbie's always looking for angles, and she says, Don is a decent man, isn't he? You wouldn't think he would be.
 
And you can see her expectations of what a womanizer is going to be like are pretty set.
And Peggy says, I never expect him to be any other way than what he is.
 
I wondered about that. Do you believe Peggy in that? Do you think she just accepts him for whatever he is?
 
Steve: I think it's a dodge statement to not give anything away to Bobbie to say, oh, I thought better of him or I thought worse of him, or even that I agree with your assessment of him as a decent man.
 
You know, it's just a total blank slate. There's nothing there that you could interpret or read. I just thought it was Peggy's information control at a hundred percent.
 
Jenna: I agree. I didn't believe her or take her at her word about this because I know she is a thinker and she does have opinions. To your point, it's smart to keep those opinions to herself, particularly with somebody like this (who) she doesn’t know.
 
 
This scene transitions from Peggy's face closing the door in her apartment to to her face in a flashback.
 
At the hospital after she's had her baby, we see Peggy's mom and Anita visiting her. And this is the shortest scene, but we see Anita is very pregnant.
And this is the baby boy we have seen in Anita's house that we've been led to believe is Peggy's because they're so close in age.
 
And I thought it was interesting. The doctor shows up and he's going to question her. So Peggy's mom seems very supportive in this flashback. She says, I'm going, but I'm not leaving, Peaches. So they're there in spite of this.
 
This very -- I don't know if we want to say shameful, but obviously this is not something they're shouting to the neighbors and her mom is there for her.
 
And we can see that Peggy is in the psych ward of the hospital now. And Anita alluded to that earlier in the season, saying, you know, the state of New York didn't think you were capable of making your own decisions.
 
Steve: My perception of this is, you know, this goes back to after Peggy had the baby and didn't want to hold it and sort of this sexist treatment of a young woman who's had a baby out of wedlock.
 
So she must have some sort of mental problem.
I'm not sure that diagnosis is correct for Peggy, but she ends up here in the ward.
 
She's now under medication that obviously she hasn't consented to,
and she's kind of trapped. So to me, it was an interesting little time capsule as to a time when patients’ rights, and especially, you know, a young woman who's had a baby's rights weren't necessarily observed by the medical establishment.
 
Jenna: I see that, too.
But I do think in this case, Peggy doesn't seem to remember having a baby. I don't think this is her putting up a front to the doctor. I think she really is having a hard time remembering that this really did happen to her.
 
Steve: So you're thinking she's just in really deep denial and that's causing her to blur her denial with reality.
 
Jenna: That was my impression.
I know they point this out on the director's commentary, but Elisabeth Moss does such a great job here.
 
She's still smart. She can answer all the other questions, except about having the baby, but she's on this medication and her answers are really sleepy and slow.
The way she moves, it's not herself.
 
So it's great acting because all those details are there and you can really see there is something wrong. This is not the Peggy we know.
 
Steve: Yeah, I think Elisabeth Moss really kills it in this scene. And I really buy that she is a disoriented, drugged up Peggy. Just excellent work.
 
Jenna: And it's not accidental that it cuts to Pete in the doctor's office giving a sperm sample right after we see the flashback of Peggy, who has given birth to Pete's baby.
 
I just want to point out there was a US News and World Report magazine in the stack of options there for Pete.
 
Steve: Yeah, I thought it was pretty comical to see Pete flipping through his options in terms of the nudie mags and seeing the Newsweek in there. I also really love the cut from this scene to Roger in his office playing with a paddle ball rather vigorously.
 
Jenna: Joan comes in and they're going to talk about her engagement. I just love their shorthand with each other.
 
She says, He's 34. And he goes, it's nice to hear the story of relatively young love.
And then he says, marriage. You really want to join that club?
And she answers, I always assumed you were unhappy with Mona, not the whole institution.
 
And he says, you're not just another woman, Joanie. And we know that's true for him. She's special, even if he's selfish and wants her to be a bird in a cage he can look at from time to time. She means something special to him.
 
Steve: Yeah, and she gets her shots back at him as well. She says she was always faithful to whoever she was with.
 
And that's when Roger assures her that she's not just another woman.
But I think Joan's point hits home there in terms of Roger's behavior.
 
Jenna: And he says, it makes me sad. Just another reason not to come into work. Which is super revealing because Don basically lives for work, but for Roger,
it seems more like it's something he does out of habit or maybe for the amusement of trading jokes and having drinks.
 
And Joan says,
I'm not going anywhere. But he says, yes, you are. You'll see.
 
They know this was always the trajectory. This is the thing she always wanted, and it's coming true. She will not have to work much longer because now her job will be being the doctor's wife.
 
Steve: Yeah, and we can see Roger's sadness and jealousy coming through here. He's not over Joan yet.
 
Jenna: We get more Peggy and Bobbie conversation in Peggy's apartment. And Bobbie says, are you in love with him?
 
And Peggy says, no, I believe her. I don't get any sense she is in love with Don. She does seem to admire and respect him in spite of some of the unflattering things she knows about him.
 
But I don't think she is in love with him.
But Bobbie pushes. She says, it's not a ridiculous question. Are you?
 
And Peggy looks her in the eye and says, it's a personal question and I've already answered you. And I love that because Bobbie has the power to push against all kinds of people in her life. And here's Peggy resisting.
 
And you can see Bobbie respects her for it.
 
Steve: Yeah, absolutely. And I agree with you. I don't get any vibe that Peggy is infatuated with Don in any way whatsoever.
 
It's also interesting that in Bobbie's interactions with Peggy, she's dealing with another woman. And Bobbie is very quick to rely on her feminine wiles to manipulate and get what she wants out of men.
 
But when she deals with another woman, that doesn't avail her. Peggy answers what she chooses to answer, shares the information she's willing to share.
 
Jenna: Bobbie goes on to say to Peggy, you're so young and beautiful. And Peggy addresses Bobbie's need just like she would to Don. She really cuts to the heart of it. She says, I'm not your competition.
 
And then Bobbie does something we have not seen her do.
She tries to be nice. She's making the effort to be nice to somebody she doesn't want anything else from.
 
And she says, I like your place. It takes me back.
And we get this little hint. So Peggy lets her guard down just a little. She's young and insecure and kind of poor. And she says, I've been trying to fix it up.
 
And we know that her home life is not what gets her attention.
It's just such a nice moment between them because they're so different.
 
Steve: I also thought it was interesting when Bobbie mentioned that, you know, she has a history and she knows how to cover up black eyes from her history.
 
So again, how did she get to be this powerful, worldly person? She put in her time and paid her dues to get to this place, especially in this would have occurred for Bobbie in the 1950s.
So she's paid her dues to get to where she is today.
 
 
Jenna: In the next scene, we see a bunch of the office guys are crowded around Jane and she's putting on a show, pretending not to notice them. Joan comes in to squash that, dispersing the guys, critiquing Jane.
 
There's plenty to see and you know that.
Did you think that's hypocritical of Joan or is it a fair critique?
 
Steve: I think it's an example of Joan as office manager setting the standards and keeping the new girls in line and setting that tone.
 
I get your point that there is a certain amount of hypocrisy or inconsistency,
but I also think there's an element of, you know, the rookie, the new person is held to a higher standard because they don't have a track record of showing they can stay inside the lines.
 
Jenna: I wondered why Joan has the power to brush the guys away. I wonder why they listen to her when she tells them to get back to work when this is such a male dominated space. But they do.
 
Steve: I think it's indirect, so I don't think, oh no, Joan's telling us to do something. We have to follow Joan's orders.
 
It's if we ignore Joan, Joan is going to walk over to whoever their boss is and say, you know, so and so doesn't have much to do today. I see he's just spending all his time talking to Jane.
 
So it's her power to rat them out or to get somebody in authority to come and get them. That in effect becomes her direct power that she's wielding, I think.
 
Jenna: And before too long, we see Ken moving in on Jane. He's pretending to check on Jimmy Barrett business with Don, but he's angling to ask her out.
And she asks, what's your title here?
 
Even though he introduced himself, she's going out of her way to show him how forgettable he is to her. And in a very memeable moment, he repeats,
I'm Ken Cosgrove, accounts.
 
And he tries to press his case, but Freddy has supremely bad timing.
 
Steve: In this office where professional decorum is so important.
Freddy comes out and plays Mozart using his fly zipper.
Nobody seems all that impressed or amused, maybe a little horrified.
And that's how the scene closes.
 
Jenna: He's so disappointed that nobody can appreciate his talent.
 
 
Steve: We cut back to Bobbie and Peggy at Peggy's apartment again. Bobbie’s getting fixed up, asking Peggy if she's aware of the value the service that she's providing here.
 
Jenna: Yes, Peggy's been caring for Bobbie in every possible way and she says it's nothing. And Bobbie disagrees. Not True.
 
So we get our second truth call out this episode here in this scene. And Bobbie shares this philosophy with Peggy that people always do things for people for what they can get for them.
 
Whereas Peggy says, isn't that what you're supposed to do, Help people?
And Bobbie gets direct. She says, what do you want? Some busy bee building a hive out in Brooklyn? And we've seen her bash on Brooklyn quite a bit. And Peggy says, are you still trying to say thank you?
 
And then we get this line, you have to build the life you want and be the person you want to be. Which is pretty similar to what she told Don and similar to what Don and Peggy are already doing.
 
And Peggy asks, is that what you did?
 
And I think we could look at Bobbie's life and wonder, did she build the life she wants? Because Jimmy's not a very satisfactory partner, even though he does bring some advantages and she seems to think she can manage him.
 
But it does call back this idea about Marilyn Monroe and having her troubles. You know, Peggy's question reminds us to wonder if Bobbie's choices and troubles are worth it to her.
 
Do you think they are? She seems happier than many of the other characters on the show and she's pretty clear eyed.
 
Steve: Yeah. I don't see any evidence that Bobbie's unhappy with where she is in life. And we've seen her under stress and in peril in this episode, and she's not broken down or started to lament her choices or decisions.
 
It feels to me like Bobbie's comfortable in her skin, comfortable with where her choices have brought her.
 
Jenna: That's what I see, too.
 
Steve: The interesting part here is when Bobbie says Peggy needs to treat Don as an equal and to also recognize that she can't be a man, but to be a woman.
 
And in listening to the writing commentary, they bring up French feminism, which is this idea of being, you know, as smart and driven and focused as a man, but also having this secret weapon of your feminine wiles that give you an advantage that you can use to manipulate and control men with.
 
It's interesting advice to someone like Peggy. To this point, I don't get the sense that Peggy relies on feminine wiles at all.
 
She's relying purely on her competence, her abilities, her intelligence and talent.
So she's really pursuing things as an equal in a gender neutral sense rather than in this Bobbie sense, where Bobbie would say, I think I'm as smart and driven as anyone.
 
Plus I've got my secret weapon to break down people like Don Draper or Jimmy Barrett or whoever it may be.
 
Jenna: Yes. Bobbie's line, be a woman. It's a powerful business when done correctly.
I think really does shift things for Peggy to see that as a power position. Because I don't think she's ever thought about being a woman as having that possibility.
And Peggy really is taking this in. We'll see this advice as a turning point.
 
And then, though, Bobbie follows it with the most condescending hand to the shoulder ever. And she says, do you understand what I'm saying, dear?
 
And it plays weird to me every time because Bobbie knows that Peggy's not stupid.
So I don't know why she follows up this respectful, direct advice that she, I think intends to be very helpful payback with this excessive Bobbie-splaining.
 
Steve: I don't know. Peggy doesn't let on that she's especially bought in or thrilled to receive the advice.
So maybe it's that lack of positive feedback that leaves Bobbie searching for some sort of confirmation or affirmation.
 
Jenna: Could be.
 
As the scene wraps up, we feel the difference between them. Bobbie asks how to get to Grand Central. Does she have to take a steamship?
 
And Peggy says she'll walk her to the station. It's just two blocks. And Bobbie goes, I'll call a car. She's not walking two blocks.
 
 
Steve: The next scene has Pete coming home to the apartment. And Trudy greets him with the news from Dr. Stone's office that Pete's sample was viable.
Pete being all about Pete, very relieved.
 
And we can see that he doesn't really give any thought to implications of this news for Trudy's situation.
 
Jenna: She tries to be a good sport, but when he pours himself a drink and says, “to viability,” she pretty much boils over.
 
You had to know this was a possible outcome, he says.
I didn't think it through, she says.
That's honest, he replies.
 
Remember in Nixon vs. Kennedy?
Rachel says this to Don when he wants to run away. She's disappointed in him. You didn't think this through.
 
And Don says it to Pete when he's threatening to reveal his past. You're not thinking this through. But here Trudy's taking responsibility for her feelings and she's being honest with Pete.
 
And he replies with his own honesty. He says,
well, who says we have to do this at all?
And we kind of get his opinion leaking out here about having a baby. Well, you can't travel or go to the movies. And Trudy gets disgusted.
 
Steve: I think this is not what Trudy wants, but I think there is some real honesty here from Pete in that he's not all about the baby. He wants what he currently has, and he really doesn't want to see it messed up.
 
And we know the baggage Pete brings to the notion of having children and that relationship with their parents. So it's an interesting scene because I think there's a lot of honesty on both sides here, even though it came from the initial place of Pete's selfishness and lack of thought about Trudy.
 
Jenna: And let's not miss this moment of Pete's anger. He gets mad and he gives this classic Pete Campbell line:
I sure as hell wouldn't want a kid here watching this donnybrook, which is not a word you get to use very often.
 
And then in classic don't be like Pete style, he adds, either you make it through this thing or just keep it to yourself, which is probably the worst thing he could say.
 
And Trudy stands there, very dignified, and she says, I'm sorry.
It's just that I really do want a baby.
 
And Pete can't fight that. He might not agree, but it's a normal wish. And it's clear that she's so sincere. Even if he doesn't wish for it completely, it feels like he does understand her pain.
 
Do you get the sense that he's on the fence, that he kind of wants a baby? Or do you think that he's just really in the no camp on this issue?
 
Steve: I haven't seen any evidence to this point that he wants a child or envisions anything great about having a child. It feels to me like it's all driven by Trudy and he's being dragged along.
 
The other thing I love about this scene, and I think it's a common thread that runs throughout Mad Men as a series, is the power of raw truth.
 
You know, it's so naked and powerful amidst all this deception and lies and misinformation and obfuscation. The power of truth. It just cuts through it all in a way that where can you go from there?
 
And in this scene, I think the acting is really on point. And you really buy that Trudy is this young woman who's desperate to be a mother. She wants it more than anything else in the world.
 
There's no ducking or dodging or evading that truth. And when she says it so clearly, it feels to me like it breaks Pete's resistance down in the moment. And he starts to try and be more conciliatory towards her.
 
And I think that's where the invitation to go out for dinner comes from, at least in Pete's head, as he's starting to realize, you know, there's no talking her out of this.
There's no evading this need. It needs to be addressed.
 
Jenna: I did feel a little sorry for Trudy that she made dinner. And then he was just like, hey, let's go out.
 
Steve: So maybe it was meatloaf.
 
Jenna: We move into another flashback from Peggy. She's back at the hospital, and when she looks over, she's slow and medicated, and she sees Don Draper sitting in a chair next to her.
 
And we find out that he called her house. Her roommate gave him her mother's number. Oh, God, she says.
 
And her mother told him she was quarantined with TB to cover up the secret.
And he asks, what's wrong with you?
I don't know, she says.
What do they want you to do?
I don't know, she says.
 
And here, Don gives Peggy advice that might be his whole life philosophy. This is his newly promoted copywriter and former secretary. When he says this:
Get out of here and move forward.
This never happened.
It will shock you how much it never happened.
 
And she doesn't say anything, but she nods.
 
Steve: I actually like the advice. Just prior to that,
when he's diagnosed, the issue here is she's got to do something to get out of there. And he says, do what they want you to do. Do whatever they say.
 
And he's not saying that necessarily, you know, Peggy wants to do this or that. It reflects truth for her. It's a means to an end. You have to get out of this institution,
and that's your path to doing it.
 
I like the mission focus here of Don Draper, of what to do in this moment of crisis. And it's sound advice. It's exactly what Peggy does need to do.
 
And I'll also say I love John Hamm's acting in this scene, because to me, this is the pure essence of Don Draper. It's mission focus in a crisis, leaving the past behind, moving forward.
 
And there's an intensity in the scene and the way he gives the advice to her quietly in this room, that, to me, it just plays very powerfully. And I think it's Jon Hamm at his best.
 
Jenna: I think we could argue about whether moving forward and pretending like things never happened is the best course of action for either of them.
 
They're both going to lean on this as a survival strategy. And I also found it really interesting that as drugged up as Peggy is, she still can see she is mission focused herself enough to really get this advice and to get that this is necessary.
 
And I don't think it's just her relationship with Don and her trust in him that's making her nod her head. She is of a similar makeup to him. As much as they're different.
She really does kind of have this same mindset. But I think there are certainly costs to their overall well being because of it, too.
 
Steve: Yeah. Don't get me wrong, I don't think ignoring the past and moving forward is the best advice for anybody.
 
But if you want to get out of the psych ward, you need to tick the boxes they need to tick in order to get released in the short term as a tactical problem to be solved.
 
So in that case, I think this is the correct path. Now, does Peggy need counseling or therapy or support or all the rest of it to manage and deal with this in the future?
 
Absolutely. But being stuck in the psych ward is not a recipe for success.
She's got to get out of there, I think.
 
Jenna: I also want to make a shout out to this really great line that I think gets overlooked.
Don says that Peggy's mother told him that she had tb, and he goes, I guess that was supposed to lessen my concern.
 
Which, I mean, I think that was a great detail.
 
Steve: It's a great scene, and I think it establishes an intimacy between the two of them. Not a romantic intimacy, but a life intimacy between the two of them that's really critical to their relationship as we go forward in the series.
 
Jenna: So now that we've seen that these two things have happened and the way that they have supported each other with secrets, we remember that Peggy was defending Don to Lois when Lois was speaking uncharitably about him.
 
We also, when Bobbie was asking all the questions about what are Peggy's motives for doing this -
Do you feel like Peggy would have helped out Don even if he hadn't been there for her after she gave birth?
 
Because I feel like she would have. I feel like she would have.
 
Steve: Yeah, I do. I, I, yeah, I think absolutely she would have. In Peggy's head, I think she owes Don for making her a copywriter.
 
Jenna: Oh, see, I was gonna say it disagrees with Bobbie Barrett's philosophy that, that people have an owing mentality.
I would have thought she would have done that because that's what she does. Right? Like that's the right thing to do instead of payback.
 
Steve: I agree with you there. I think that element exists, but I also think there would be an element of this guy's done me a solid. This is a chance for me to reciprocate a solid.
 
Not in a pure sort of transactional equation, but I think there would just be further push to say, yeah, absolutely, I can help you out here.
 
But in a world where he hadn't made her copywriter, and in a world where they hadn't had this incident with her baby in the psych ward, would she still go to help him? I think she probably would have.
 
Jenna: I agree.
 
 
The next scene takes us back to the office where Pete and Sal and Don are meeting about some work.
 
Peggy comes in late, and the entire audience is doing this thing with their faces watching Don blame Peggy for being late and unprepared when she just saved him so completely. And he just leans into the criticism and she takes it completely professionally.
 
And let's just predict that Pete and Harry and Sal would not have restrained their indignation if they were in Peggy's shoes and Don was criticizing them. No chance.
 
Steve: And also, we've got, you know, Pete trying to get somebody else to come onto the account, and Don is a stonewall to that suggestion. Don't think we need to do that. Checks in with Peggy. Yep, there's no need. Carry on.
 
Jenna: I'll have it first thing Monday. Yes, you will.
Shut up, Don.
 
Steve: As Sal and Pete clear out of the office, Peggy closes the door and brings up the subject of the $110 bail.
 
She starts with an apology for being unprepared regarding the work, but then mentions $110 is a lot of money to her.
 
Jenna: Yeah, she's not just letting it go, even though it's awkward to ask.
 
Steve: Don mentions that when you forget about things, you sometimes forget about too much and offers that as almost an excuse for the fact he hasn't, you know, proactively repaid her.
 
Mentions he'll pay her the remainder the following day.
Peggy has her moment of her new relationship with Don.
 
Jenna: She looks him straight in the eye and says,
Thank you, Don.
 
She looks right at him and she walks out and claims her power fully. And I think every possible audience member has to cheer for her at that point.
 
Steve: Yeah, and there's an. There's a great look on Jon Hamm's face in response to it of, you know, a little bit of puzzlement, a little bit of surprise, a little bit of shock, but he doesn't say anything.
 
So it's a great little scene and a great wrap there. Bobbie's advice has started to impact Peggy's worldview, I think.
 
Jenna: This episode is called New Girl, which I think could reasonably be attributed to Jane, who, in a parallel to Peggy, is introduced to the office by Joan and comes in as Don's new secretary.
 
But we remember Peggy being called the new girl so many times in season one, and I think she can claim that title again.
She's evolving into something very different from the meek secretary who was trying to avoid having to talk to Pete in the pilot.
 
Pete is no match for her now, and she's not afraid of Don anymore. She is definitely a new woman.
 
Steve: Yeah, absolutely. And I think this is a more significant development. Although Jane's character arc is. Is pretty interesting as well.
 
 
Jenna: Next we see Jimmy Barrett coming into the office with Bobbie for the meeting with Don. And Don doesn't know why.
 
Steve: We don't know as the audience either. So I do like the tension of wondering what's about to happen as Jimmy storms in. And we know Jimmy will say and do whatever he thinks.
So there's no holds barred if it's going to go down that path.
 
Fortunately for Don Draper, Jimmy just wants to come in and thank him for helping with us. Don is rather passive and reassures Jimmy he's not seeking any thanks for this.
 
Jenna: Well, we all got what we wanted, Jimmy says, but we don't really know what Don's interests are, and we don't really know what he wants, and neither does he. So this seemingly innocuous statement has some real bite, I think.
 
Steve: Yeah. And I like the writing here, too. When Jimmy inquires about Don's arm being in a sling and Don pawns it off as an old football injury. And Jimmy quickly responds, yeah, I get those too.
 
Liar talking to a liar, knowing they're lying and it's not important that they're lying. But nobody's in any confusion that the truth is not being exchanged in this moment.
 
Jenna: In a previous scene, he told Ken that he missed the bottom step, so he doesn't even have a consistent lie going on about what happened to his arm.
 
 
Steve: The final scene of the episode is Don coming home to family dinner.
As he sits down to eat, he sees it's meatloaf. The kids are chowing down on it.
Asks Betty why there's no salt. Betty reassures him he'll get used to it.
 
Sally asks, you know, why can't Daddy have salt? And Betty says, because we love him.
 
Jenna: And Don looks around the dinner table at his family. Betty's drinking wine,
Bobbie's swinging his feet that don't reach the floor as they eat the meatloaf together.
 
Do you see guilt here, or do you think he doesn't feel a thing?
 
Steve: I don't see guilt, but I do have a perception of lack of fulfillment I think would be the word I would use.
 
This doesn't float his boat. And this is fundamentally the problem here.
You know, him trying to be good and recognizing his commitments and all the rest.
If he succeeds at that, this is what he's left with, and it doesn't do it for him.
So it's kind of a doomed effort. How about you?
 
Jenna: I just think it's funny that we have this perception of Don trying to be good when in this episode, he got drunk because he was having sex with a different woman on the beach.
 
But, I mean, I take your point. I know earlier in the season, he did say that he was trying to be good, meaning faithful.
 
He doesn't seem to have a lot of joy wherever he is, except for possibly some isolated moments at work when he gets a great idea.
 
So I feel like there's just this brokenness in him that doesn't really have anything to do with Betty's flaws or Bobbie's flaws, for that matter. Sorry, Not Bobby Draper. Bobbie Barrett.
 
I feel like he can't ever be happy or content wherever he is until he addresses these things in his past.
 
Steve: Oh, yeah, I agree. It's all about him. It's not that any of these people objectively are failing or disappointing him, but in terms of him being good, you know, I think Bobbie has to use all her feminine wiles to draw him out for this drunken drive out to the beat.
 
He's not willing and eager. He has to be sort of dragged and manipulated by Bobbie. And she knows exactly which strings to pull. And, I mean, she's the one who whispers across the table to him about having sex on the beach.
Jenna: I think he's fully complicit. He makes his own decisions. I can't pin it on her.
 
Steve: Yeah. I'm not pinning it on her. He's his own agent, and he makes his own choice. But she's trying to make his decision as difficult as possible, and she's using every means at her disposal to get what she wants, and she succeeds.
 
Jenna: It's kind of like Pete and Trudy in that you see that it's a standoff or an impasse. The gulf is widening, and it's really hard to see how these two people can come together.
 
Steve: And I think, you know, if we were to say, well, how could they improve their relationship. I agree with your point. He needs to be honest and forthcoming about what it is he does want and why he wants it, and then they can go from there to figure out how to obtain that.
 
And the fact that he doesn't share it and puts up this front and face of sort of what's expected or stereotypical, that dishonesty and unwillingness to engage is the insurmountable obstacle, I think, in terms of a fundamental improvement for the two of them.
 
Jenna: I like this episode because of course I like seeing Peggy coming into her power and finally having clarification five episodes into season two about the cliffhanger of the baby she delivered at the end of season one.
 
I am feeling sad for Pete and Trudy and for Roger and Joan and for Don and Betty. But this episode has some really stellar lines and I love the pacing.
 
Steve: And I'm happy for Jimmy and Bobbie because he got the show and Bobbie's happy, so things are going swell for them.
 
 
Jenna: We'd like to thank Lisa C. of St. Louis, Missouri for listening to and supporting our show.
 
If you like our podcast enough to leave a five star rating and a positive review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, please help us out. We appreciate you for listening.
 
Steve: That's it for this episode of All Things Mad Men, from Chip and Dip to Zou Bisou. Visit our website, Mad Men C to Z .com to vote for your favorite Sterling lines and to share your opinions on our Double Dip questions for each episode.
 
Jenna: You can find us on Instagram and YouTube at Mad Men C to Z, and please listen, like, and subscribe. That's what the podcast's for!
 
Steve: Thanks for listening, everybody.