Smoke Gets in Your Eyes Pilot Transcript

Below, find a full written transcript of our S1: E1 Smoke Gets In Your Eyes Mad Men C to Z podcast episode.
You can listen to the podcast discussion here.
And please visit the full episode page, with Sterling Lines, Double Dip questions, show notes, and more.

Introduction
[00:00] Musical Intro
Jenna: Hi, I'm Jenna.
Steve: And I'm Steve.
 
Jenna: Welcome to the first episode of all things Mad Men, from Chip and Dip to Zou Bisou. Do you watch too much Mad Men? We started this podcast to connect to Mad Men fans like us who pick up something new with every rewatch.
 
Steve: Now, be advised, this podcast will include spoilers so we can talk about all the character arcs all the way through the final season. This is really not intended to be a podcast for those who have not yet seen Mad Men.
 
Jenna: If you have strong feelings about elements in Mad Men, you are in the right place. We'll be breaking down each episode of Mad Men, debate and celebrate the memorable moments, and pose some questions to listeners so we can get your insights.
So let's get started with Mad Men from Chip and Dip to Zou Bisou.
 
Steve: Episode 1. The pilot is called Smoke Gets in Your Eyes, written by Matthew Weiner, directed by Alan Taylor. The script was written five years before the pilot was filmed back in 2006.
 
The instrumental theme song is A Beautiful Mine by RJ D2. Weiner heard this song on NPR and reworked it for the show. Let's talk about the opening sequence.

Jenna: Yeah. So the theme song is so iconic, and I really, every time I look at the opening credit sequence again, I think about that black and white man falling past the happy, colorful families on the buildings and the contrast between this vivid world that they're trying to create in advertising versus his black and white harsh reality.
 
Steve: For me, what strikes me is there seems to be a lot of glamour and sex appeal to the images, but the man's falling out of control, which suggests to me that he's not on top of everything.
He's not master of his domain, that in some ways he's buffeted by the chaos around him.
 
Jenna: Yeah, for sure. The free fall.
Okay, so we should probably take a minute to talk about our big six characters in the show and some of their more recognizable projects. And it makes sense to start with Jon Hamm or Don Draper.
 
Steve: Really, this is the role that makes him famous. So I'm not sure that it all matters that much. Sort of what he's done subsequently, because this is the role that gets him everything else.
Jenna: Yes, but it's super fun to recognize him in the Mercedes commercials, Baby Driver, the TV series Fargo, recently Landman, and of course, in Top Gun, Maverick and all kinds of other things.
Oh, also notably two episode appearance on Gilmore Girls way back as Peyton Sanders. For those of you who are fans, I know, Steve, you are not, but just for fun.
 
Steve: We have Elisabeth Moss As Peggy, she's well known from A Handmaid's Tale. She was on the West Wing, Picket Fences, the Veil. She was also the girl from Girl Interrupted who liked the Petula Clark song Downtown.
 
Jenna: That's my favorite trivia fact. John Slattery as Roger, well known for the Marvel Universe films, of course, as Howard Stark, also in Spotlight. And he's done just a ton of TV. Everything from Girls 5, Eva, Arrested Development, Law and Order, Veep, lots of stuff.
 
Steve: Christina Hendricks is Joan Holloway. She's from Good Girls, Tinstar, the Mom in The Buccaneers, Solar Opposites, and ER.
 
Jenna: I think everybody has been on ER. And in Law and Order, same thing. We've got also Vincent Kartheiser as Pete Campbell. He voiced Ezekiel in the animated movie Rango and he was also Scarecrow in the Titans TV series.
 
Steve: January Jones as Betty Draper. She had a small role in Love, Actually, one of the girls that Colin meets in Wisconsin. Emma Frost in the X Men First Class, Dirty Dancing, Havana Nights, the Last Man on Earth and Spinning Out.
 
A Simple Little Band of Gold
[03:45] Steve: So let's talk about the first scene.
The pilot opens with Don inside a bar in Manhattan, smoking and doodling on a napkin. Clearly he's trying to come up with an ad jingle or angle for cigarettes. As the waiter comes by, Don asks why he smokes Old Golds, the brand of cigarette.
How does he even know the brand the waiter is smoking? Can you see this? See the band?
 
Jenna: I guess. Good question. I just noticed that he is selling more to this busboy. And I know the pilot is kind of unusual, but just being really familiar with the series, he's selling more to this busboy to get his opinion than he usually tends to in his life.
 
It's kind of an outlier because usually he doesn't have to work this hard because characters gravitate toward him. So it's so fun to see this opening scene because he's really aggressive almost to getting the answers he needs from this person.
And he usually doesn't have to be quite that much unless he's pitching an ad.
 
[04:47] Steve: Yeah, I didn't perceive it so much as selling as he was trying to pull information out of the waiter. So he's sort of challenging the waiter sort of single word replies and trying to draw out of them, you know, why are you smoking this brand of cigarette?
[05:00] And when he doesn't like the answer he gets, he follows up and sort of hits, hits the next question, you know, trying, trying to drive at some hidden truth or secret here as to why this waiter smokes a particular brand.
 
[05:13] Jenna: I don't disagree that that's his purpose, of course, in the scene, but I do just notice that as the character, he's much more. I guess he's got more hustle right here than he does later.
 
Later, he kind of holds his cards closer to his chest. And here he's really hungry for it, I guess, in a way that he isn't later.
 
[05:32] Steve: I wonder if it's a sign of his desperation. You know, he's. They're meeting with Lucky Strike the following day. He doesn't have the answer yet, so he's sort of striking out in any possible direction, hoping to find that source of inspiration or that light, that spark.
 
Jenna: Ooh, you're not just a pretty face. Clever. Very clever.
 
[05:52] So as we move into the next couple of scenes, we see dawn knocking on the door of Midge at her apartment. Midge, played by Rosemarie DeWitt. You'll recognize her from Rachel Getting Married, La La Land. She was Daphne Campbell in The Boys, in The United States of Tara, and Little Fires Everywhere. So what do you think about this? As he goes in and meets Midge, what do you notice?
 
[06:14] Steve: I think it's very clear that Midge is not his wife or official girlfriend, that she's a mistress.
We haven't been introduced to any sort of family relationships. We don't really know anything about him. He's coming late at night. Once he gets in the room, you know, she assumes it's a booty call.
 
And then he flips it back the other way. That he's struggling with this work problem he has, which it seems strikes her as, you know, somewhat surprising. That's not what she's expecting when he shows up late at night.
 
[06:43] Jenna: Yeah, I noticed that she challenges him on the first line. So it's not like she openly is. Oh, I'm so thrilled that you're finally here. It's. Hey, you weren't worried about waking me, were you?
 
So she's challenging this semi disrespect of him showing up uninvited. And then he does seem really obsessed with work. He's not paying attention to her. He's interested in his own problem and how she can help.
 
Just like he treated the waiter, Right? Like everybody around him is a tool to get what he needs, which is to solve his work problem.
 
[07:13] Steve: Yeah. And we don't know that he has a wife yet, but if he does,
clearly he's cheating on her. He's been out at this bar working on his problem. He's now gone to his mistress in the city. So if he has a wife, clearly he's disrespectful of that relationship and of her.
 
Jenna: Yeah. And then the next morning when he even says, we should get married, and her answer is, do you think I'd make a good ex wife? And so I don't think necessarily that she doesn't want to marry him, but I do think she clearly understands she can't show him that she wants any of that too much.
 
So while I think part of her bohemian persona is I don't make plans and I don't make breakfast - which is a great line, by the way - I don't entirely believe her, I think she knows she can't count on him, so she's not going to let herself pretend.
 
[08:03] Steve: Yeah, I'm not really sold that necessarily she wants him in that way. It could be this relationship works fine for her the way it is. The way she rolled out the sort of dismissal of him in the morning, to me, was suggestive of her power in the relationship, that she's limiting the relationship and ushering him out of her apartment.
 
Jenna: Yeah. I think she just knows that if, in fact, they had each other in that way, it would change things.
So I think she definitely - I mean, he has her attention, but he doesn't give her his full attention. He's thinking about work. Right? And then afterward, in the morning, he's thinking, oh, this is so great. It's so easy.
But that type of relationship is a lot easier, of course, because she's not asking a lot of him, so. But I love how she always flips it back.
 
She seems to be kind of his equal, and she has a professional life. He says, you own your own business. This relationship could work if we got married.
He appreciates her, obviously, but I think also he is fundamentally just about himself in a way that doesn't work for her.
 
[09:10] Steve: Yeah, I agree with that. She definitely strikes me as being an equal in terms of power in this relationship, or what little we've seen of it. I was wondering, too, if there's not an element of escapism, of in the morning, you know, oh, we should get married.
 
He sort of wants to linger. She's ushering him out the door, really. He's got an important meeting today. He hasn't been home. He's still in his clothes from last night.
It strikes me, just with the benefit of hindsight, you know, Don likes to escape. And I wonder if this is almost like a mini attempt at escape.
 
[09:42] Jenna: Oh, absolutely. I notice that, too. She always keeps the focus on their sexual relationship or flirting or, you know, her boundaries. She gives him a sentence or two, but she's always turning it back.
 
 
So even when he goes, there's a kid who comes in every day and looks where he can put his plants, and she goes, is he handsome? So it's always about that flirtatious thing with her.
 
So I heard also somewhere, somebody was talking about how Don is really his true Dick Whitman self with Midge and where he's like Don Draper at work. And I don't agree with that.
 
I don't think he's especially honest. I think he compartmentalizes himself. He's not an authentic person, or partner to her. So he might be relaxed in a way. He isn't at work, but he's not necessarily real.
 
I think he's just mercurial, and he shifts pieces of himself from one moment to the next. I don't think he's all one thing or all one other thing.
 
Steve: Yeah, I agree with that. And I think Don is all about the masks. And there may be multiple masks at any given moment, but I think, you know, we'll see as we go through the series, but to find moments where Don's masks have been removed and we're seeing the straight unmasked Don, I think is relatively rare, and I agree with you. I don't think that's what we're seeing in this pilot for sure.
 
You Have to Let ‘Em Know What Kind of Guy You Are
 
[10:57] Jenna: All right, as we move into scene four, we're going to really get into the heart of the Mad Men thing. We get the shot of the building, and we get to meet Peggy, played by Elizabeth Moss, in the elevator with Harry, Ken, Paul.
[11:10] And we've got Rich Sommer as Harry Crane. He was one of Andy's friends in Devil Wears Prada. He was in LBJ. And he's done tons of work on different TV projects.
[11:19] Michael Gladis is Paul Kinsey. He's done a lot of TV as well. Medium, House, How I Met yout Mother. And Aaron Staton as Ken Cosgrove. He was in the Nanny Diaries. He was also in the Right Stuff TV series. And all the way back to a show called 7th Heaven. If you are old enough to appreciate that, you can go look him up there.
So as they're traveling up the elevator, here's Peggy. And what do you think about this?
 
[11:41] Steve: I think it's a shocking scene to modern eyes because it's so clearly sexual harassment. It's really delineating the different universes they live in where they’re predatory and harassing a new secretary who's come to their company.
 
She's not in a position of any sort of power or ability to respond. She's just got to sort of quietly sit there in the elevator, uncomfortably, and take it.
 
Looking at this, it's set, what, in 1960? So. So looking at it with modern eyes, it strikes me as very shocking that people behave that way.
[12:15] Jenna: And there's so much of it. The sexism toward Peggy in the elevator, in public, and also this discussion about Pete's upcoming bachelor party and dragging an anchor around his neck and all that kind of stuff.
 
And with Ken. So as I look back on the series, I always have this sense of Ken being more likable than some of the other guys in the office.
He's kind of decent, but he definitely has some bad moments in the series and several of them are in this episode. So you really can't recognize him as a decent guy here in the pilot.
 
So the whole, like, I'm enjoying the view and You gotta let ‘em know what kind of guy you are so they know what kind of girl to be. But at least Harry says back, I don't think you're gonna be going to his bachelor party anytime soon.
So at least he acknowledges that that attitude is, even at that time, not really gonna fly.
 
[13:02] Steve: I might just be reading this into it because I learn and get to know the characters in future episodes. But I wonder how much of this is about that sort of youth and inexperience, insecurity and false bravado, where their strength in numbers and they're reinforcing each other's bad behavior.
 
But I just feel this nagging doubt at the back of my mind. You know, you're not really that confident. You don't really have that kind of power. You know, you wish you did and, and you like to fantasize about it, but I wonder if it's masking those insecurities.
So they're very normal and common, but the bravado is. It's a little too much. It's a little too out there, and it's sort of, Okay, what is it we're compensating for here, boys?
 
[13:46] Jenna: Oh, absolutely. And for sure they are showing off for each other. I think it's reasonable to assume they are not actually as confident as they're trying to pretend they are. Yeah.
 
And speaking of not as confident as we pretend we are.
Scene five. We get to meet Pete Campbell. We've got the back of his head, just like we were introduced to Don Draper. He's on the phone with Trudy and then he gets to talk with the guys in the office.
 
[14:11] Steve: When Pete's talking to his wife on the phone, you know, he's sort of spewing lies. You know, they're planning this raunchy bachelor's night out. He talks about, you know, he's giving up his life to be with her as some sort of proof of his devotion or reassurance to her concerns about the bachelor party.
 
And we know he's doing it all in front of this audience, which is his sort of frat boy cohorts at the company.
So it's a very rough introduction of Pete in terms of how he treats this woman he's going to marry, how he seeks to perform and get this approval of this group of cohorts. Yeah, I think my hatred of Pete starts off solidly in the pilot with this scene.
 
[14:53] Jenna: Yeah, absolutely. Of course I love you. I'm giving up my life to be with you, aren't I? Great mentality, Pete. Just way to be a grown up there.
 
I mean, I think we could definitely, in a healthier relationship, reframe that. But the idea that he's such a catch and that she's going to hamper him in every way . . .
 
Yeah, that definitely doesn't sit well as you're introducing him, as he's talking with the guys here, Paul, Harry and Ken. According to the DVD commentary, all of those guys did audition for the Pete part and they were great.
 
So Weiner kept them around and then eventually all their roles became more defined. So watching them here on the pilot, just kind of navigating that territory with Pete is really interesting because of course we know they're going to grow together and become more distinguishable from each other.
 
[15:39] Steve: Yeah. And I think I'll throw in here a shameless plug for Matt Weiner's commentary that comes with the Mad Men DVDs. It's so helpful to hear from the writer what he's thinking, what he wants to portray, what he wanted to convey in a given scene.
 
And I really find Weiner's comments just a treasure trove of insights and, and just interesting information about this piece of art that he's created.
 
[16:04] Jenna: It's so funny, isn't it? Because you feel like you spend time with the actors or the characters in any show and you think, oh, I really want to hear what they have to say.
 
And then when you listen to them, you think, oh, you're not at all like, the thing that I thought that you were. And then when you listen to the writers’ commentary for any show, it's like, that's it.
That's that voice that I'm interested in, that has me so intrigued. So, yes, power to the writers, for sure.
 
If You Really Make the Right Moves, You’ll Be in the Country
 
[16:26] Steve: And the scene in Pete's office rolls then into Joan instructing Peggy about her first day in the office. She makes some allusions to how to behave, how to keep her boss happy, her boss being Don Draper.
 
And then there's a few, you know, modern jokes. Looking back at the technology, and I think one of Joan's comments is, it's simple enough for a woman to use, and it's a telephone and an electric typewriter.
 
Jenna: Yeah, I want to talk about that. I actually feel like it goes a little bit too far there in the pilot in a way that the show gets smoother at later.
It's too much of a loud call out to, hey, this is 1960, not 2005. So this. Try not to be overwhelmed by this technology thing. And then, even if you're gonna slam Joan for it, (the comment) they made it simple enough for a woman to use, then Peggy says something like, oh, that's good.
 
You know, so to have both of them buy in, you know, Joan is no dummy. I don't. I don't believe that line.
That's not the best moment. As we just said, the writers have everything together. And there are a couple of others like that in the pilot that I feel are not as smooth as Mad Men normally is.
 
Steve: Yeah, I agree with that observation. And I get the sense that somehow, as Weiner's writing the series, he fills out the Joan character, and it becomes something bigger as time goes on, and it evolves a lot, maybe more so than some of the other characters who feel more fully fleshed out and defined straight out of the gate.
 
In his commentary for episode one, he describes Joan as a courtesan. And I think that that's an interesting way to introduce her character in the pilot, because it does seem like a lot of what she's advising Peggy about is sort of how to keep the men happy, how not to upset the men, how to please the men, as opposed to sort of Peggy's role as being a professional with, you know, requirements and things that are not directly tied to the opinion of a male boss.
 
[18:22] Jenna: Absolutely. And so Christina Hendricks, interestingly auditioned for the role of Midge, and it's so hard now to think of her in any other role but Joan. And she's actually one of the more interesting characters to me, which surprises me, and I want to come back later to this thing.
 
The first thing she says in a couple of years, with the right moves, you'll be in the city with the rest of us. But if you really make the right moves, you'll be in the country.
So this idea that the best thing that could possibly happen to you is you meet someone, some rich guy and get married, right, that's at the heart of her mindset.
 
And it's so packed, this scene with tons and tons of information about who she is and what, what her head is in terms of, like, what Don is interested in and what, who Peggy should be and just how the office works.
 
And clearly she's no dummy, right? Like, she's got a lot of information, a lot of background, but her style and her delivery of it are so unique and interesting and all the details and how she presents it with her efficiency and her confidence, it's really fascinating.
 
Did you notice anything specific with all the advice she was giving Peggy that stood out to you?
 
[19:26] Steve: I would just say, I think, again, it's a bit of Weiner sort of aligning our expectations and perceptions back to 1960. You know, that sort of quite obvious weight on the ambitions of a woman in the office is likely to get her M.R.S. and move out to the country.
 
Joan doesn't seem to take any time to get to know who Peggy is. You know, she's really just a replacement for the last girl who's come and gone.
 
I believe they use the word girl instead of woman repeatedly. Again, it seems to emphasize this subordinate, secondary world that these women live in. They're not part of the movers and shakers and managers of the firm. They're in a support role and need to please the men who are in those dominating roles.
 
[20:12] Jenna: Yes, I had that same note. Very little of anything that Joan says in all the monologue that she's got has anything to do with Peggy. And I was so excited because I thought that the first thing that Peggy said was,
I always try to be honest after the horrible paper bag advice that Joan gives her about, like, looking at her body and, and being honest about whatever it is that she needs to fix.
And Peggy says, I always try to be honest, but the truth is she does say a couple of goshes or, like, the number of trains she took or whatever, but the first thing she says of any substance at all is I always try to be honest, which I think is really interesting in a show about image and advertising, which, of course, you know, is not necessarily always truthful.
 
[20:54] Steve: And I think also in a world that's so dominated by men and where we know Peggy is going to blaze a bit of a trail at least through this firm, if not through the industry, one of her secret weapons is her honesty, her candor, you know, her sort of thoughtful intelligence. That's her superpower that's going to allow her to push through so many barriers to her success.
 
So I wonder if it's a bit of Weiner sort of winking at us, the audience, as to sort of, this secretary is going to be something far more than just another secretary.
 
[21:29] Jenna: Yeah, that's a great read. And Joan's answer, good for you. And the way she delivers it.
It's the first time she really seems to see Peggy. But at the same time, I don't know that she believes what Peggy is saying. And it doesn't even matter to her if she's honest or not. It doesn't matter to Joan. It's clearly not important.
 
Steve: Yeah, I took it as dismissive. Sort of like, you know, another new person with grand ambitions, you know, great. Onto the next thing.
 
 
Lucky Strike I
 
[21:59] Jenna: And that's a good cue for us to move into Roger visiting Don's office. This is John Slattery's first appearance as Roger, and he's checking in with Don about the Lucky Strike meeting, but he's pretending like he's not checking in with Don about the Lucky Strike meeting that's coming.
 
Steve: Yeah, this scene is interesting because Roger's subtle in it, but through the writing, Weiner really makes it clear to us that Don is not Roger's equal, that Roger's a founder / owner, and Don might be the creative star of the firm, but that's a subordinate position to ownership.
 
And there's just a couple little Roger comments here where he sort of alludes to that difference in their roles. And at the same time, like you mentioned, he's checking up on his creative talent to say, hey, what do we have for this major account with Lucky Strike? It means a lot to the firm to be able to launch an ad campaign.
 
[22:51] Jenna: And he also mentions their upcoming meeting with Menken’s. And of course, he has a very stereotypical limited view of, hey, is there anybody Jewish in our firm that we could get to sit in on this meeting to make the client feel like, oh, yeah, we understand your needs.
 
And Don says, do you want me to run down to the deli and grab someone? So gross. But also, Don is making a joke here. It's a quippy type of joke. And again later in the season or in any of the seasons, Don isn't that funny. This is more of a joke that Roger would normally make.
 
So in the pilot. It's kind of interesting to see him throwing out a bit of a sense of humor there. Another thing I noticed in this scene is Don changing his shirt.
He's got a drawer full of clean shirts which suggests that he spends a lot of nights in the city. So sort of like what you were saying, this mistress habit and this infidelity and this system that he's got, it's very entrenched.
 
It's not just a one time kind of a thing. And we already knew that from the way that he and Midge talk together.
 
[23:50] Steve: Yeah, I absolutely think they're setting us up to understand this is sort of how Don lives his life. And just to fast forward to later in the episode, we can see that Betty's been well trained to say, look, I don't really know when my husband is going to come home or not.
 
So it's a bit of a surprise at the end of the episode when he does. Often he doesn't. And clearly he doesn't spend his nights alone in the city.
 
Jenna: Yeah. Don, you dog. If you're waiting for Don to do the right thing, you wait a long time in Mad Men, that's for sure.
 
Steve: I just wanted to mention as well, in Weiner's commentary, he mentions just sort of the casual antisemitism in the comments between Don and Roger. And I think what that establishes is again, this timepiece element of it, sort of understanding the mentalities in New York in 1960 and these ad firms,
that they really were Anglo Saxon bastions and that it mattered what people's religions were, what their name was, where they came from, just as much as their gender, their race.
And these are creating separate worlds, separate tracks that characters live in. And as they brush up against the boundaries, they start to encounter resistance and obstacles related to those elements of identity and how that identity is perceived.
 
Jenna: And Weiner isn't very easy on us as a modern audience. He doesn't shy away from showing us the ugliness of that. Even in casual moments, even in people you otherwise want to like.
He has them show that ugliness through throughout their lives. And it's, it's hard to take. Yeah.
 
Steve: And when Don, you know, pulls, I think it's the exerciser out of his drawer, his Purple Heart falls out. Purple Heart medal. And he replaces it in the case and we can see it's been awarded to Don Draper.
 
So right there we, we understand that he's a veteran, which, which was quite common. You know, there were a lot of veterans from World War II and then later Korea.
So again, we've got another little factoid about Don's background that, that he's, he's served time in the military.
 
[25:56] Jenna: And I appreciate that we get this, this timing thing of, oh, he was a vet from the Korean War, as opposed to a lot of other shows that focus on different time periods.
Another thing here, he's got a joke again. So Sal comes in and says, you know, are you working on your bikini body or something? And Don says back at him, summer's coming and, and Don usually doesn't have a lot of time for humor.
 
So again, in the pilot, it's interesting to see him just making these little quippy jokes.
 
Steve: Yeah. And again, I think your point's well taken in contrast to sort of how Don evolves later in the series. So I think it's another one of those examples where Weiner's got some very well defined ideas here, but he's going to be fleshing them out and adjusting them and fine tuning them as we move through the series.
 
And the characters are going to change in those ways as Weiner dials them into exactly what he wants them to be over the course of many hours.
 
[26:57] Jenna: And also with Sal Romano coming in, this is Bryan Batt. You've seen him in High Tide, 12 Years a Slave, a lot of work on Broadway. He co owns a shop in New Orleans called Hazelnut.
It sells gifts and home decor and things like that. So Bryan Batt as Sal comes in and he seems more like a contemporary because they're talking about Lucky Strike and Sal flips back at him, You're the writer, so you wouldn't normally do that at your boss.
 
But also you can see Don has the corner office and you can see with this awkward chatter that they have that Sal does want to please Don with his awkward thing about, hey, are you going to the bachelor party? And so on.
 
[27:32] Steve: Yeah, it does strike me as a bit sycophantic, which suggests that Sal is a subordinate of Don, of Don maybe more experienced and closer than the Pete entourage, but clearly he's not Don's peer or equal.
 
And then I will also say, you know, sort of knowing where Sal's character arc is going, you really pay attention to Sort of his comments, and he really seems to be sort of going through the motions and, you know, trying to talk the talk of that sort of frat house male attitude about women.
 
But knowing what we know about Sal, we of course, can see through his bravado.
 
So the next scene, we have the research assistant entering in to discuss with Don and Sal about the research that's been done on Lucky Strike. Basically, Don doesn't like the research, which suggests that society has a bit of a death wish and embraces danger and risky products like cigarettes don't have any health benefits and that they're, in fact, killing their consumers.
 
They get into a sort of a heated debate about the psychology. Greta representing the sort of academic, scholarly approach. And then Don sort of coming back at her with this sort of, I don't know, you know, gut, intuition, perspective.
 
[28:51] Jenna: Yeah, absolutely. And I think he - it's very clear even at this level that he trusts his own gut more than he trusts anybody else's research. I also, I do want to touch back to this idea with Sal and his trajectory because this is such a loud call out to everything, but he says people living one way and, you know, secretly living another way.
 
Ridiculous, you know, so. So for him, that's, again, just like the technology piece earlier. It's a little less subtle than in Mad Men - the writing you would normally be, but. But you can forgive it in the pilot, certainly.
 
Steve: I really enjoy Weiner's little winks at the audience with these little comments. And I agree with you, they're a little balder in the pilot, but I do think they permeate the series and perhaps just get more subtle as everyone gets dialed in tight to sort of their character arc.
But I really enjoy Weiner. I feel I see him winking at us through the script at various points.
 
[29:49] Jenna: And that subtlety, I think, is what really gives me. You can derive some pleasure out of watching the series because you're in on the joke. You know the characters so well that you understand when something is out of character or unique to them because you have this complete understanding of them, which is really satisfying, gratifying to be able to watch this show and perceive all that.
 
I wanted to talk about Greta. He says miss, and she insists he call her doctor, and then he throws her research in the garbage.
And he, you know, she's pushing back on him, which was okay for Midge, but is not okay for her. So part of it is the time is ticking closer to this meeting and he doesn't have an answer.
 
So again, Don treats everybody around him like a tool to get what he needs, which is success at this meeting. Well, she's not giving him success, so he's frustrated with her.
But I love that she doesn't cave to him. And so she says, good luck in the meeting. I'm sure it'll be a quick one. So, you know, she did her job, but he's got no time for it.
 
[30:51] Steve: Yeah, it's interesting and I wonder what it tells us about Don because it seems to me there's some sexism in his behavior. You know, would he speak this way to a male academic who’s tellin ghim the same message?
 
Jenna: Absolutely not.
 
Steve: Would he throw a male academic's study in the garbage can right in front of him?
Jenna: Absolutely not.
 
[31:14] Steve: Yeah, I don't think he would. So again, I think it's putting us in this time and place where even a female academic who has all the credentials and, and in fact her research is really well founded and she's the one speaking from a learned position, you know, is subjected to this, you know, creative ad man who just decides, well, no, I don't, I don't believe, I don't like that and I'll just be dismissive of it. So I like that she gives him a bit of a shot walking out the door because he certainly deserves it in this scene.
 
Jenna: Absolutely. And in terms of Don's education or he, he's pretty self taught, I think he has some night school, we find out later. So for him to, to trust in himself and his own confidence, that's a very American ideal that your own strength can carry yourself through.
 
And I think that's, that's an interesting and relatable thing that a lot of us have. Right? That our own experience is what we can trust and not necessarily just, the stranger is telling me facts and research that are cold when you have heart and feeling and instinct.
 
Steve: Matt Weiner alludes to this in his commentary that sort of people speak better than they necessarily would. They're a little more articulate or a little better at framing their ideas.
I'd have to say that this would be one of my criticisms and sort of suspend disbelief aspects for me on the character of Don. Don's from a hardscrabble background. Don isn't educated.
 
You know, Don certainly has some great ideas and thoughts, but this sort of polish he has as a professional on Madison Avenue at this time, if I take off my rose colored glasses, I don't think that's credible. I don't think he could fake that level of refinement.
So, again, you know, I love the series, big fan of it, but this is one where I have to sort of put that in my back pocket and just accept, no somehow Don's got to this place where he can sort of fake it as if he went to the best schools and was hanging around the best people to get to this position of authority and responsibility within an ad firm.
 
[33:19] Jenna: It is a little - it definitely stretches believability. But they do allude to that a couple of times later on. Roger says things like, by the way you drop some of those G's, I always thought you were raised on a farm. So Weiner is very detailed and does come back to some of those things. But even so, I agree. I don't think he could fake it that convincingly.
 
I think it's much harder to really blend in when you've come from where Don has come from.
 
Steve: So, yeah, it's a small point.
 
I’m Peggy Olsen. The New Girl.
 
[33:55] We then have Don takes a nap after watching a fly crawl on the ceiling light. Peggy comes in and wakes him up, letting him know that Pete is waiting outside.
 
As Don gets himself put together, Pete barges into the office, not waiting for Peggy to beckon him in. And Pete's nervous about the Lucky Strike meeting and just wanting to find out what Don's got up his sleeve.
 
Jenna: Yeah, there's so much going on here. So with that, that fly and the light, and it's not a very subtle symbolism of you're trapped and you can't get out, what are you going to do? Because he still doesn't have a good answer for his big meeting.
 
And this is the first time that Peggy and Don meet. He doesn't even know her name. And already they're sort of united in their dislike of Pete. So he says, you know, go out and entertain him.
 
And also this fakeness, again, he doesn't know I've been sleeping in here, does he? So he cares what Pete Campbell thinks and knows about him. And Peggy's like, no, he doesn't know, but do I have to go out there?
So already they're sort of united in this person who's very easy to dislike.
 
[34:59] Steve: Yeah. And as a viewer watching the pilot for the first time, you're trying to figure out where does this dislike come from between the two of them? Is it just a personal thing or is there some sort of rivalry?
 
I think in the pilot there are enough allusions to sort of Pete's ambitions and where Don is in the firm versus where Pete is, that it is a rivalry that's been struck up here.
And Don sees this young Pete chomping at the bit, ambitious, willing to climb over the dead bodies of those he has to stab in the back to get to the top.
 
Ruthless. And I think it's off-putting to Don, both professionally, because I think it does violate what I would perceive as his code and as well as personally, where he can see that he himself may be an obstacle in the ways of Pete's ambitions.
 
[35:49] Jenna: I think it's also true, you know, we dislike most in others what we dislike in ourselves or what we're uncomfortable with about ourselves. And of course, Don being so competitive and so ambitious himself, looking at the nakedness of Pete's ambition is really ugly and difficult. He says, you're tough to take first thing in the morning. And Pete - Weiner is giving us no breaks. He's like, I've never had any complaints.
 
So it's just fraternity, fraternity all the way through. His mentality is just so disgusting. And you know, you love to hate Pete. And I do think it comes back to that.
We all know a Pete Campbell. Maybe not in advertising, but we all know somebody who's ambitious like that. And often maybe it's us who's Pete Campbell.
 
Steve: Yeah, I was gonna say exactly that. We all know Pete Campbells, but we also see peeks of him in our mirror sometimes, and most of us probably aren't very comfortable or don't like that.
 
And I totally agree with you. I think Don's success has been fueled by his ambition and his ruthlessness. And I think as we go through the arc of the series, we'll see sort of, you know, he's willing to do almost anything in servicing what he's driving for.
 
I agree with you. I think he sees a little too much of himself in Pete. And he doesn't like the image.
 
[37:06] Jenna: So here it’s Pete with Peggy, and he doesn't even look at her. And he looks at Don and says, who's your new friend? And he gives her advice on her appearance, which is tasteless, but almost echoing what Joan said.
 
So again, now she's got all this unsolicited advice about showing her legs. This is the second time she's got this. And he's definitely not impressing her.
 
Steve: No, absolutely not. And it's interesting, Weiner mentions that Don has a code. You know, for all his flaws, he does have a code. And I really perceive this scene as a flash of that code.
 
Don doesn't really know Peggy yet, but he can see that Pete's behaving boorishly and awfully, so he speaks up on that.
I don't get the sense that it's personal to Peggy so much as just Pete offends Don. Don has an opportunity to sort of slap him down here for his bad behavior, and he's happy to do it because he's sort of got a yucky feeling when he's around Pete at this point.
 
[38:09] Jenna: Yes. Even though Pete is being so repulsive, he doesn't shut it down as obviously as you would hope somebody would. So they're walking away from Peggy now, and he says, she's young for you, Draper.
 
And even there, he says, the future Mrs. Pete Campbell is a lucky woman. So it's a shot, but he's not correcting him until they have several more exchanges. And then finally, Pete keeps pushing and pushing because he doesn't know what else to do.
 
He is ambitious, and he pushes, and that's how he gets what he wants. And then Don stops him, and then he pushes back and says, you know, the new girl from the steno pool? Nobody will like you.
 
[38:49] Steve: Yeah. And again, I get less a vibe that Don's defending Peggy than Don is just taking a shot at Pete.
 
Jenna: Yes. He's enjoying his righteousness.
 
Steve: Yeah. And I think it's interesting because, again, it helps put us in the timeline of how people were behaving at this time and what women were subjected to in the office, and that even in a case where someone speaks out against it,
defending you or stopping that kind of awful behavior is secondary to, oh, you violated my code. I find your presence loathsome.
 
It's almost a bit of a letdown because you'd like to put the white hat on Don standing up for Peggy. And then you realize, oh, gosh, it doesn't really fit.
 
Jenna: It's more about himself. Yes. And Peggy is just expected to take it and suck it up and not be upset about it. She just has to get through her day with as little of this as she possibly can, and she has no control over how much of it she has to receive. So that's depressing.
 
[39:49] Steve: Yeah. I think, as the viewer, we're really in a position of being rather sympathetic to Peggy at this point. You know, we're sort of seeing this young woman. We don't know much about her or her motivations, but I think we'd all say she's not in the best of circumstances. And from what she's seen so far in the elevator and here in the office, it looks like it's going to be a difficult work environment for her, to say the least.
 
Jenna: And I think it's interesting that we start with the pilot. It's her first day, so I don't think you can really make a convincing argument that anybody other than Don Draper is the main character of the show, because everybody connects to him ultimately, in some ways.
 
But Peggy as a character arc, as a protagonist who definitively changes and that we get to meet everybody on her first day of work,she certainly has a very good case for, you know, if Don isn't the hero you can root for, Peggy might be.
 
Steve: Yeah, I think that's a great point. And I would say maybe that's the point of Peggy's first day, is we have our first day with Peggy. We look through Peggy's eyes now.
 
We see more than just what Peggy sees, but a lot of what we see through Peggy's eyes is very central to the essence of those characters and how she will interact with them, at least in the near future, if not as they start to morph and change over the arc of the series.
 
You Were Expecting a Man? So Was My Father.
 
[41:13] Jenna: Yeah. So as we move toward this first business meeting, Don is meeting with Rachel Menken, who's played by Maggie Siff. You'll recognize her from Sons of Anarchy and Push and Fifth Wave and Billions A Woman Apart.
So she's got a lot of stuff that you might recognize her from.
 
And Don walks in, and he shakes his hand with a guy from the mail room that Roger brought upstairs because he's Jewish. And it's awkward because, of course, Don thought the man was the person in charge. So mistake number one. And then Roger is trying to pretend like the guy from the mailroom is somebody that Don works with on a regular basis, which he isn't.
 
And it's clear he doesn't know him. So he has just had two strikes immediately before they've even sat down.
 
Steve: Yeah, it's. It's just really cringe because you've got the token Jew who's sort of called out into the spotlight as exactly that. A token. As we quickly find out, Rachel's very smart, picks up on it all, and then they're both on their back feet, Roger and Dawn scrambling now with Rachel, trying to recover for their faux pas and setting the wrong tone, that they're not really taking her seriously as a client.
 
They're not really taking her problem seriously.
 
Jenna: But you can see he's trying to turn on the charm because charm is supposed to be enough. Right? Like that's all he's going to need in this meeting. And I love her first line.
 
You were expecting me to be a man? My father was too. And that establishes so much about - she's not at all what he expects.
And it's not just her gender, it's everything about her. So is this going to challenge what he is, is thinking about just his work and, and this whole interaction with her as a client.
So I do appreciate that from the very, very first sentence, she's pushing back on him as an equal.
[43:02] Steve: Yeah. She's such a delicious character. And in, in these early interactions with Don, it's just clear she's outclassing him at every turn.
 
He's underestimating her. He's not at game speed yet. And she's just popping his balloons and fluff and just blowing it away, you know, machine gun style. And you can almost see Don again back on his heels, mentally sort of puzzled with, you know, what is this I'm talking to right now? Who is this person?
 
Because she's like, nothing I expected. She breaks all of my assumptions and she just keeps coming. She just keeps bringing it line after line.
 
I’m Not Here to Judge You (Except I’m Definitely Going To)
 
Jenna: Yeah. And in, in this next scene, which is Peggy at the gynecologist office, which is so, so, so slimy and awful. I tried to count the awful things that the doctor says to her.
 
I came up with eight, but it's really hard to isolate them. It's just horrible. So it's just, I also wonder. So this is another you can see she's been sent here from Joan.
 
I do find it stretches believability a little that she would go to the gynecologist at her lunch hour on her very first day of work, that that would suddenly be so important to her.
But on Joan's recommendation, (she’s here), the doctor is smoking in the exam room and, and everything he says is, you know, okay, well, you're here for birth control pills, but, you know, don't be slutty. That's not cool.
 
And then he's saying all these awful, awful, awful things to her. So it's, it's a terrible back and forth of I'm going to sit here and judge you and also I'm kind of going to flirt with you, but it's greasy and horrible while I'm flirting. It's terrible.
 
[44:40] Steve: Yeah. And it's, and it's really such a throwback to an earlier era that I think it's difficult for us today to imagine it being that way. So as a modern viewer, my eyes and ears are just shocked by the whole interaction.
 
And it's you’re cringing the whole time, cringing for Peggy. You know, just how unprofessional the doctor is.
You know, when Peggy looks at the calendar image and you can imagine she's just trying to sort of take her mind away from this awful situation and hope that it will pass quickly.
 
Yeah, you really feel sympathy for Peggy again. It's just another dirty, nasty corner of a dirty, nasty world that she's entering in here on her first day.
 
Jenna: And it's just a series of indignities. And he's, you know, I guess, businesslike, sort of like, nothing wrong with being practical. And then he goes, spread your knees, and he's like, but I don't want you to be some kind of strumpet.
And then it's the juxtaposition of these ideas of I will take you off this medicine for your own good. And then he's looking between her legs while he's lecturing her.
It's just. Yes, it's very hard to take.
 
Shrimp Cocktail, Anyone?
[45:51] Steve: And then from this awful scene, we flip to another scene, which is awful, I guess, in a different way. It's in the business context. Rachel's now in the boardroom, they eating lunch, and Don is sort of giving his standard spiel about how to sell, you know, for this department store chain.
 
Their grand idea is coupons, which Rachel promptly rips to shreds.
Rachel talks about wanting to go upscale with her clientele and alludes to Chanel as being an example.
 
Don and Roger both seem very stuck in the past and obsessed with their original answer, which was, this is just another stodgy department store.
And here's our stodgy department store spiel.
 
As things go further and further sideways, Don's temper starts to flash as Rachel continues to slice and dice him and his simplistic and basically lazy assumptions.
 
Jenna: And let's also talk about the fact that their lunch is shrimp cocktail, which is not kosher. So, again, clearly, they were not really paying attention to the real, actual needs of their client, even in terms of what is lunch, much less what her business needs, which is their whole job.
 
So it's interesting, too, she maintains her professionalism throughout the encounter, even when she's frustrated. And she says even the customer's always right. This expectation that I'm asking you to do something and you're refusing to do it.
 
[47:18] And she's not asking for something that's ridiculous. Again, if she were a man, I don't think she would get this kind of treatment.
 
Eventually, she puts her cigarette out in the shrimp cocktail, which may be less professional, but you're cheering for her at that point. And it's interesting how it's not just Don's temper tantrum that's growing, but Pete's attempt to smooth it is completely fumbled.
 
He's supposed to be Mr. Account Man, and he tries to patiently explain things to her, and he makes it worse.
 
[47:47] Steve: Yeah, they don't even entertain the substance of what she's saying. They're just completely dismissive. She's talking to brick walls. When Pete jumps in to support on Don, he doesn't have any logic or reasons why, you know, Menken’s can't be like Chanel.
 
He just states, well, they're different, and, you know, it's no value added. And just another example where sort of Pete shoots from the mouth and doesn't help the situation any.
 
When Rachel throws the cigarette into the shrimp cocktail, I think it just says it all. And again, it's just such a great moment where their disrespect of her, their inability to hear her and treat her with respect is fully exposed.
 
And I think they want to feel righteous that she's the unreasonable one. But I have to wonder if they're all not smart enough to know inside they're out of bounds here.
 
Like, they. There's something wrong with their response. And not that they're pleased with her or agree with her, but I just can't imagine that they're fully convinced themselves that, that they acted appropriately or that she doesn't have a point in there somewhere, you know, in their. In their secret thoughts.
 
[48:58] Jenna: Yeah, she's called them out because they have spent all their attention and energy on the Lucky Strike meeting, and none of her. So they thought, oh, okay, we'll. We'll bring you coupons, and that will bring Menken’s into the future.
 
It'll be great. And she says, that's what my father wants for our business. And I really like this attention to detail. Every character who walks on stage in Mad Men has a backstory.
 
She's grown up with her father's expectations, and you can tell she's pushing against his expectations for the business as well and trying to probably fight him on some of his traditional visions for where the company can go.
 
And so now she's going to take this meeting, and she has to have the same fight with the people who are supposed to be working for her.
 
Steve: I think if we take it from the standpoint of how women are treated and the sexist attitudes, Rachel's almost like a high powered Peggy. You know, our contrast in this episode.
 
So we have Peggy coming in at the bottom of the food chain and being subjected to all this bad behavior and attitudes and the rest. But then we can see, even at the top end of it, you know, Rachel is rich, Rachel's a client, the account is lucrative, she's meeting with these executives, and yet she's still getting short shrift from their inability to actually listen, hear, and engage her productively.
 
[50:14] The meeting breaks up and Don sort of storms out in a huff, you know, which is you're emotional and childish. But it sort of, I think, illustrates his frustration with what's just occurred.
 
Pete comes outside and in his typical sort of sycophantic behavior, confirms that Don is right and the client's wrong and this and that, and extends his hand that. That he wants to continue working and will follow Don.
And Don doesn't take his hand. So it seems like, you know, there. The frustration with Rachel has done nothing to bring them together or unify them in their sort of dislike of each other.
And as Don refuses his hand and walks away, Pete mutters F you under his breath.
 
[50:56] Jenna: And it's interesting because that scene with Pete and Don after the Menken’s meeting opens where Don acknowledges you must be happy because the meeting didn't go well, and he assumes that when it doesn't go well for Don, that means it's good for Pete.
 
And Pete takes this opportunity like, no, no, we can be buddies, right? Like, this can happen and Don will not have it. And that for Pete is really frustrating, of course, because he would like to make sure that Don is on his side.
 
And he goes too hard, it's too much. It's too over the top. You know, I'd follow you into battle.
Which maybe knowing what we know about Don later is maybe not the best thing he could have said.
 
And Don really is just like, it’s too much. You're pushing too hard. And that is Pete's nature. He does not know how not to do too much or go over the top. That is just how he is.
 
Which is so interesting because you can be so disgusted at Don and his treatment of Rachel. And yet afterward, you're with Don, you're like, yeah, Pete I don't want to be on your side either.
 
So even though Don isn't some hero, you still are happy to sort of reject Pete's advances as a viewer.
 
[52:06] Steve: Maybe I'm forcing this a little too much, but I was thinking, you know, Pete's background is he's a WASP from one of the best families, so he would certainly know all the social graces and that facade of friendliness and teamwork, you know, that would be socially ingrained in him from a very early age.
 
Sort of flip flopping on what I said earlier about Don speaking and acting in a way that I find hard to believe he would arrive at that, you know, given his background.
 
I wonder if this is a case maybe where Weiner is showing how Don is much more blunt and direct and he's not willing to put up that facade with, with Pete.
 
You know, his distaste for Pete, his unwillingness to partner with him, is on full display. And this is probably unusual to someone like Pete, who in the country club, you know, everybody would act cordial even as they're trying to put knives in each other's backs.
 
Whereas in Don's world, you know, his distaste is how he feels, and his code is that he's going to convey how he feels rather bluntly.
And this is unnerving for Pete, especially being in the junior sort of striver position vis a vis Don.
 
[53:11] Jenna: And absolutely, the fact that Pete comes from money is part of what I'm sure rankles Don and gets under his skin. Because here's this young upstart who has given everything and handed it to him compared to who Don is.
 
So I'm sure part of his disgust is, is just this young, ambitious person who's had it easy.
 
Always Be a Supplicant
[53:31] Steve: All right, from here we go back to Joan introducing Peggy to the operators in the office. She's had Peggy bring some gifts and helped her choose the correct gifts for each operator.
 
From their interaction, we learned that Peggy's predecessor failed to grease the skids with the operators and suffered some administrative support issues that likely come from that failure to bend the knee to the operators as sort of the technical hub of the operation.
 
Jenna: Poor little thing couldn't get a call through, could she?
Steve: Rude little thing. Rude little thing. So we, we know that she, she wasn't polite to the operators.
 
Jenna: Be nice to the telephone operators. Stephanie Courtney plays Marge. You'll know her as Flo from the Progressive Insurance commercials. Also Blades of Glory. She's a member of the Groundlings Theater Company in LA.
 
Zandy Hartvig plays Ivy. You might recognize her from Beef or from Wanderlust. And Kristin Shaw, of course, Nanette. She's done a lot of improv work, What We do in the Shadows, and she was Number Two in Mysterious Benedict Society.
Also, The Last Man on Earth, Bob's Burgers, Gravity Falls, Lots of voice work.
 
[54:41] I also wanted to talk a little bit about in addition to the scene with the telephone operators, I'm curious again with Joan leading Peggy and showing her around. From Joan's perspective, she is being very generous and very helpful.
 
So you wonder, why didn't she help Eleanor with these tips? You know, Peggy seems very receptive to following all the rules that Joan gives her, and that clearly pleases Joan that she's amenable to that.
 
But you sort of wonder, why would she go out of her way to help Peggy by helping her know exactly what gifts to purchase in the first place?
 
Steve: Yeah, I don't know. Maybe she did try and help Eleanor, and Eleanor wouldn't listen. Maybe Joan has some responsibility for the new hires. And if a new hire fails, it shows poorly on Joan to say, well, why did you bring this person in?
 
Because clearly Don hasn't interviewed his future secretary.
So I was wondering if that maybe is a selfish motivation for Joan, you know, to bring in the kind of girls that these men want as secretaries.
 
Jenna: And speaking of the kind of girls, Joan's take on Eleanor isn't where the telephone operators think, oh, it's because she couldn't get a call through. Joan's take is, Mr. Draper wasn't interested in Eleanor.
 
[55:54] So that gives Peggy another piece of information about, this is who you're supposed to be. And again, a third time in this episode, somebody is giving Peggy unwanted advice about, hey, Mr. Draper probably would like to see your legs. So, again, like, how are you dressing and everything? So it's not just the men, it's the women around her, too, who are being horrible.
 
Steve: Yeah, and I think it's back to this courtesan vibe of, what are we talking about? Women working as secretary or girls being brought in, you know, to service the executives.
 
And it really feels that this line is blurred throughout the episode based on all the comments and behavior of the characters.
 
Jenna: And as the scene opens, Joan reveals that she has seen the Dr. Summer place. She pretends like, not that I've seen it, but it's beautiful.
 
She clearly is not shy about sharing her numerous relationships or the perks, as she sees it, that come with those types of relationships.
 
Lucky Strike II
[56:54] Steve: The next scene has us back with Lucky strike. This is the big meeting at 4 o'clock, for which Don has no ideas. As they get through the introductions and preliminaries, it goes to Don and he sort of stumbles and pauses and slowly opens his binder. And it's pretty clear he's got nothing really to say at this point, which is a pretty big oops moment.
 
Who jumps into the fire at that moment to try and save it? Pete. He starts promoting Greta's research, which quickly gets shot down by the client.
 
Don's not pleased to see Pete jumping in, but at the same time, Don doesn't have his idea. Roger's, you know, trying to sort of edge towards the exit and see what he can salvage from this meeting.
 
And at this point, it looks like the whole meeting's gone quite far off the rails. They don't have anything and the client's going to leave.
 
Jenna: Could I say something? I don't know, Don, can you?
That's so classic Roger. So it's a dig, but it kind of flies so that it's not exactly at the client. Yeah.
 
Lee Garner Sr. Played by John Callan. You recognize him as Mark Green's father on ER. Everybody's on ER. He was also on Northern Exposure, in 1776, The Historian. Tons and tons of work, this guy.
 
And then Darren Pettie, Lee Garner Jr. From The International, Ghost Town, Seal Team, and The Mist and some other things. So they're the clients. It's a family business.
 
And I love this moment when Don asks, well, how is your product made?
And the younger one says, I don't know. And the dad says, shame on you. And he goes through the process, and that's where Don pulls out his spark of genius, his instinct, the thing he knew that would beat Greta's research.
 
It's toasted. It's toasted.
 
[58:48] Steve: Yeah. He sort of affirms his popular psychology of they're all undifferentiated products. Nobody can claim their product is healthy, so you can say whatever you want about your product as long as you don't say it's healthy.
 
And this seems to go well with Lee Sr., that he likes this idea of they're shifting the conversation from the inability of cigarettes to claim health benefits to just changing the subject, dodging the matter altogether and putting the focus on qualities of the product.
 
Jenna: Misdirection. Yeah.
 
So he gets the, It's toasted. And Roger goes, I don't think I have to explain what you've just witnessed here. And Lee Gardner Jr's like I kind of think you do.
 
And then Don gets into this, this sort of tagline for the whole show, right? Advertising is based on one thing, happiness. It's a smell of a new car. It's freedom from fear.
 
It's a billboard that screams reassurance that whatever you're doing is okay. And of course, we'll see throughout the series, Don's signature line is, it's okay. It's going to be okay.
 
Everything is okay, even when clearly things are not. And Don is a master of that mask of that faking that everything is fine. And so for him to talk about advertising being the freedom from the fear that you aren't okay is really excellent to see in the pilot because it's so important throughout the run of the show.
 
[01:00:16] Steve: Yeah, I think that's a great point. And it really does permeate the lives of the characters, how they behave. And that sort of challenge of taking that front of happiness, that front of I'm okay to make it your reality.
 
And how big is the gap and what does it take to close that gap? Because I think we'll see even later in this episode, we sort of run into that again when Rachel challenges Don at their meeting.
 
[01:00:43] Jenna: And before we get to that, so Don and Roger have a follow up about the Lucky Strike. And, you know, Roger's pouring a drink. He says, you had me worried. I didn't know if you were drunk or not drunk.
 
And then they drink together. And Roger is all business here. He's talking about the meeting they just had. He wants him to go make up with Rachel Menken. He is proposing maybe a Nixon presidential campaign.
 
So he's, he's really all business. And also, you know, not as nakedly ambitious and hungry the way Pete is, but clearly focused.
 
Steve: Yeah, agreed. And, you know, Pete comes into the meeting and he's sort of promoting his bachelor party, which, you know, we've already seen him and his frat boy cohorts talk about that and sort of promote it.
 
And it's pretty clear Don has no interest in participating in it. It's not clear to me if it's just because Don dislikes Pete so much. I also get the vibe that this is just not Don's cup of tea.
 
He doesn't go out for frat boy antics. He's a little more mature, a little older, so that, that sort of, you know, outing has, has no appeal to him.
 
Jenna: I think that's probably true that it doesn't anyway. But I also think that this is a special chance for him to just twist the knife in Pete a little bit more.
 
[01:02:01] He just had success in his meeting, which he knows is a big stick in the eye to Pete and he's not going to go celebrate his bachelor party and why not?
Just because. So I think he's very, very happy to disappoint Pete on whatever level he can.
 
I am a little bit curious about Roger though, because Roger, before he leaves and all the boys come in and everything he says, I suspect there's going to be some mid level camaraderie and I, wonder - you know, he's, he's pretty comfortable there, but I wonder why he walks out.
 
Is it that he's really - he needs to remind everybody that he's a level up or because he has things to do or because he's not interested in being a party boy with them specifically?
 
So I actually had that same question about Roger because he's, he seems more of a freewheeling kind of get a drink where you can get it kind of guy.
 
Steve: Yeah, I got the vibe there that Roger was illustrating his difference not just to the frat boys, but to Don and wanting to keep that separator between himself and Don in terms of I'm an owner, founder, whereas you're a creative genius.
 
And it's interesting because we know how their sort of friendship evolves over the series and it feels to me like this is something that dissipates or lessens in terms of how it affects their interactions.
 
It seems rather prominent in the pilot to me.
 
Don’s Not Into You
 
[01:03:24] Jenna: It's interesting to see that contrast as it, as it moves forward as, as the other guys leave and, and Pete and Don are having this, Pete is trying to sell again too hard, push too hard.
 
Oh, come to the bachelor party. You'll come, you know, you'll be there. And, and Don is like, no, you can't make me, basically.
 
But again, we have this thing about the technology that's, that's too,
too loud with, it's not like there's a magical machine that makes identical copies of things that doesn't exist. This too obvious a shout out to the contrast between, you know, 1960 and 2005.
 
But I do think that his irritation with Pete about that he knows that he stole the research and he knows that he tried to take his moment in the meeting and that will not stand. So that's yet another reason why he's got to punish Pete.
 
Steve: Yeah, absolutely. He's furious at Pete for having taken the report out of his garbage can. And I think this also gets to one of Don's code items. You know, that the creative zone, the creative side and the account men like Pete should never cross that boundary.
 
So here again, Pete is crossing that boundary. It's going to happen again and again in the series. And the sheer hostility Don has towards Pete every time it happens is very consistent.
 
[01:04:41] Jenna: It is interesting, though, because just as you're ready to hate Pete Campbell for the rest of your life, because all the reasons to give him credit when he's talking about the research, he says, I think she was right.
 
So that, to me, is kind of fascinating because as we see Pete and his job later on,
he's able to look at something that Don summarily rejects and. And say, there's maybe some potential here. I can kind of see this. And even Lee Garner Jr. Although the Senior was very offended, Lee Garner Jr. said, that would be very interesting if our product was dangerous, you know, which of course is not, because they have to keep up that pretense.
 
But Pete can see something there that Don was not willing to look at.
So that's kind of an interesting nugget there.
 
Steve: Yeah, I do. I do think it hints at Pete's intelligence and that Pete is more than just a ball of ambition.
 
[01:05:35] Jenna: And as we move on, this is so, so, so cringy. Oh, Peggy.
So she closes the door, and she and Don are in the office, and she thanks him for a great first day. I heard you were amazing in the meeting. And then she puts her hand on top of his.
 
So all day, you know, she bought the aspirin and the band aids because Joan told her to. And she bought the bath salts and the chocolates because Joan told her to.
 
And she went to the gynecologist because Joan told her to. So this is what. And everybody's been telling about her legs and, you know, what Mr. Draper wants and this and that.
So this is her moment where she's going to try and be that person. But I'm so curious because she - everything about her is she isn't that kind of girl. So why is she trying on this personality?
 
Steve: I wonder if just. It's been a very overwhelming first day.
It's been a tough day. She's probably fatigued. She's desperate to succeed. I think we can already sense sort of her ambition and hunger.
 
And I wonder if all that just doesn't feed into sort of assessing, like, this is what's expected in this moment.
And I'm going to try and adhere to that. It goes rather brutally for her. You know, she gets the rejection from Don, so, you know, a sexual rejection from her boss.
 
Furthermore, he sort of calls her out and says, you know, you're my secretary.
So he's almost giving reverse advice. You know, it's been all about how to be more attractive and appealing. And then suddenly he's sort of denouncing. Well, you know, that's not what this is about.
 
You really feel for, for Peggy in this scene because she's trying her best and it just seems at every turn she's failing. And then, you know, she finally sort of puts it out there with her boss and then it fails again.
 
I did like when she mentioned that she appreciated Don standing up for her against Pete. So there seems to be almost an informal alliance, you know, for further strengthened there in the sort of anti Pete view.
 
Jenna: And I wonder if Don sort of forgives her because at the end of the scene he says, I need you to make a call. So it's business as usual. So let's forget about this.
That's the signal.
 
But I wonder if the fact that she didn't know, she didn't let Pete in for the research, Pete lied to her and said, I'm looking for my fountain pen.
 
And I wonder if that is a difference maker in terms of Don being able to forgive Peggy a little bit more because remember when she puts her hand on his hand,
he thinks that she's conspiring with Pete against him basically at that point. So that, that might also be a difference maker.
 
[01:08:09] Steve: Yeah, I like that idea and that makes a lot of sense. I would also say, you know, as we get to know Don, he's not wantonly cruel.
So, you know, he will react harshly. Sometimes he crosses a boundary. But, but he's not sadistic or he's not looking to sort of continually hurt and punish people in most sort of verbal conversations like this.
 
I was wondering if maybe when he sees just how profoundly his response to Peggy sort of knocks her down, she. She starts to, to almost weep. She says, I hope you don't think I'm that kind of girl.
 
And he says, no, of course not. I, I wonder there if again his code reels him in a bit professionally to say, you've gone pretty hard on this, this young woman.
 
It's her first day, you know, dial it back a bit cowboy. And then, then he does so sort of, you know, seeking comfort or seeking security in that just sort of pure by the book professionalism, which then also gives her a note to just shift gears into that professional business mode.
 
Jenna: Yes. I think his cruelty typically lies in his inattention to people or his self absorption. Rather than. I mean, with Pete, it's a little bit different because he certainly can be agitated into, you know, wanting revenge.
 
But I don't think that's his default setting. I also just coming back to why is Peggy trying to do this when it's clearly. I mean, she doesn't have any game.
Right? She doesn't know how to dress, she doesn't have those tools.
 
But in, again, this show that is all about image and here she is trying on a different personality, like maybe I can be that girl.
 
That's kind of interesting to see her do that, because we do that. Right? Humans do that. We try on different personalities in different settings. So it's interesting to see her do it even though it doesn't work.
 
Steve: Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. And I also think this rejection has repercussions before the end of the episode.
 
It’s My Party
[01:10:05] Jenna: Yeah. So let's talk about our strip club scene where we see Paul and Ken and Harry and Sal and Pete and. And again, Sal avoiding because: Do you have a girlfriend, Salvatore?
And his answer is, come on, I'm Italian. So he's signaling pretty clearly here about what's going on from Sal's point of view. But they've got girls who came over to join them and they're sitting with them.
 
And here's Pete again. He's too handsy. She says no. He keeps pushing. She's trying to smile. Like, again, all the women understand we can't make a scene. We can't make anybody uncomfortable. We have to grin and bear it.
 
But it's so bad that she has to suggest leaving to the other girls before Pete will stop.
 
Steve: Yeah. And she changes seats to move away from him. And then Pete becomes all pouty. You know, the young man wants what he wants. He's way too aggressive. He basically spoils the opportunity for him, if there ever was any.
 
And now he's sullen and pouting in the middle of his own bachelor party.
 
Jenna: And you don't even feel sorry for him because he's so awful.
 
[01:11:13] Steve: No, you don't. And you know, and it's just sort of perfect if we're saying in the first episode, trying to predict traditional villains and heroes. Clearly Pete is landing on the villain side of the ledger based on what we know of him so far.
 
Jenna: And we should feel pity. I mean, everywhere he goes Pete is trying to take charge and nobody will accept that from him. That, that's not a role that he just can't seem to find it anywhere.
 
So he's definitely not having any fun. And yet he has no concern for anybody else. So it's, it's very difficult to feel sympathy for him.
 
Steve: Yeah, he's just all selfishness and ambition at this point, you know, from what we've seen of him.
 
Jenna: So the next scene is excellent. It's just outstanding. And I think it's because Rachel Menken is such a great character. And I really think that if Don were at a different place in his life, I feel like she would be a really great match for him.
 
She would be a really good partner. She's smart, she's interesting. She calls him on his business that he definitely needs to be called on in a way that not all the women in his life do.
 
And yet I don't think that he would be a very good partner for her because of all of his issues. I do want to call out a truth alert.
So something that I've noticed in this series is in almost every episode - there are a couple that I can't find it - A character will say to another character, that's true, or I don't think that's true.
And often it comes at the heart of an episode. And this scene includes that truth alert moment here. So do you want to kind of talk about what's going on here?
 
[01:12:48] Steve: Yeah. First, I'd like to respond to your point about Rachel being a match for Don.
I think she is, but I wonder if Don can even see that. And one of the vibes I got from watching this scene is, again, it feels to me Don has rocked back on his heels.
 
You know, he's not encountered a woman who's this sharp, this quick, this intelligent, who's slicing and dicing sort of his words and his claims and climbing inside of them and blowing them up.
 
And she does it machine gun style. Everything he says, she has a response that's sophisticated and challenging. And I think I just get a look of surprise on Jon Hamm's face, you know, as Don Draper.
 
What the heck am I talking to right now? This is not what I thought it would be. Again, sort of the smooth over charm session across a couple cocktails for the debacle. That was the meeting in the office.
 
Jenna: Absolutely. He goes into that meeting expecting he's going to show his charm because it always works and he's going to make this client happy with him. And instead, his natural curiosity is completely shaken by what this woman is saying back to him.
 
Steve: And I think it comes so fast and furious that it, that it overwhelms them. And he's sort of falling back on his cliches and his cynicism. You know, love doesn't exist.
 
[01:14:10] We just made that up in On Madison Avenue. And it's like, okay, you can fall back on those tropes, but is that what you really believe? And then when she calls him on that to say, do you really believe that he doesn't have an answer.
 
And again, you can almost see him drowning in a way that parallels him struggling in the Lucky Strike meeting where he's got nothing and he's slowly opening the binder to stall for time as his mind thrashes around looking for something.
 
It feels like Rachel deals him the same hand here.
The difference being he doesn't come up with an answer in the end. He doesn't get to the pitch.
 
[01:14:48] Jenna: Well, he makes a pitch. And I see this on memes all the time, this stuff that he says. So he says, you know, what you call love was invented by guys like me to sell nylons.
 
You're born alone and you die alone, and I'm living like there's no tomorrow because there isn't one. So it's all cynical and negative. But I don't believe him. I think he is just pretending to himself, this whole pitch.
And Rachel clearly doesn't buy it either, but he thinks he's going to go into this really smooth, well articulated advertising is all that there is to life speech, and she's going to be blown away by it.
 
And as you say, no, in fact, she is not overwhelmed or taken aback by his genius. She very casually says, I never thought about it, but it must be hard being a man, too.
And this completely undoes him. Not just her suggestion that it must be hard to be a man, but that she didn't buy his line as well.
 
[01:15:40] Steve: And not only that, she doesn't respond to his line with a line of her own or a shtick.
She almost expresses dismay that here's a person who doesn't believe in romantic love or doesn't think it's a real thing. And then that morphs almost into maybe I'm reading into it, but almost a pity, like, I feel sorry for you.
 
It's her sheer honesty that. An earnestness, I think that again disarms him because he's trying to do a shtick and a spin. And you know, that is just helpless against human honesty.
 
That's combined with her sort of, you know, intelligence.
 
Jenna: And to hearken back to Peggy as well. You know, I always try to be honest. I think that is their relationship too, that it is unique because not that it's a perfect relationship, certainly, but that honesty there, he really responds to that in Peggy, and here.
 
So when we go to the moment of truth, she says, Mr. Draper, I don't know what you really believe, but I do know what it feels like to be out of place, to be disconnected. And there's something about you that tells me you know it too.
 
And all he can say is, I don't know if that's true, when in fact, we know he knows damn well that's true.
 
[01:16:54] Steve: She's just pinned him onto a bulletin board in the exact spot and he's got nothing to come back at her with. And, and, and looking at his reactions in the meeting, I don't even think he knows what to think about what just happened.
 
I think his brain is still struggling to catch up with, again, something that just went so far off the rails from what he thought it would be to suddenly having himself exposed to this effectively a stranger.
 
Jenna: And I appreciate in the DVD commentary, Weiner makes the point that, you know, in most shows, the successful meeting with Lucky Strike would be the important scene, but here in Mad Men, this is the climactic scene.
 
And it absolutely is. And I love that she turns it into a Midge thing then. So she's been honest and forthright. And then she says she refuses the second drink.
And she says, you can tell your boss you charmed me. I'll see you Monday for a real meeting. And she just. Absolutely. And when he stands up, he is smitten.
 
You can see on his face he wants more of whatever this is.
 
Steve: Yeah, he doesn't even know what it is. He just knows he wants some more of it. It's game, set, match to Rachel. Absolutely.
 
And I really appreciated Weiner's comment in the commentary, where he just talks about this recurring theme of alienation and being out of place, because I think it permeates so many of the characters in this series and they may come and go from that place of alienation, but it always is lurking.
 
So even when they're feeling in a place of comfort, alienation lurks, you know, on the edges and it, and it can come back into frame or move out of it.
 
Run, Peggy, Run!
[01:18:27] Jenna: And speaking of lurking, that brings us to the next scene as Pete shows up outside Peggy's door And we don't know where he is because Peggy's roommate answers. And this is a question that I keep with me about Mad Men generally.
 
On my top five questions, I would say this is one that I have, which is, why in the world does Peggy let Pete in? And I have a lot of thoughts about this, but let me throw it to you.
 
What do you think? Why does Peggy agree that Pete can come inside?
 
Steve: I struggle with this question as well.
And in so many ways, we think Peggy has so many reasons to loathe Pete. You know, he represents everything bad about this new office environment she's in.
 
But I think there's almost a pity element that comes into it.
This person who's been dealing the cards all day is suddenly at her doorstep, sad, lonely, dejected, desperate. He's gone all the way across town to find wherever the heck she is, which went to a certain amount of effort.
 
And I think you can really see in Peggy's face that there is some attraction or appeal to that. Wow, he went to all this trouble to see me. When she asks him why she came, why he came over, his answer is, I had to see you.
 
You know, which is very simple, but also compelling in a romantic way. So, again, I can't pretend that I'm completely sold on it, but I'm probably halfway there to say after this rough day in this strange new world, getting rejected by your own boss,
struggling to reconcile, You know, I always try to be truthful with walking the line and behaving the way I'm supposed to in this new environment.
 
Suddenly somebody in a position of power shows up at your door saying, I just had to see you. And they're desperate and they're vulnerable in a way that you haven't seen them all day.
 
[01:20:19] Jenna: I do think there's definitely an element of again, she's trying on this persona of being this new girl in this new job. And she thinks that this is part of the persona.
 
So she's definitely been led to believe that all day by the environment.
So I think that does form something. And he definitely is not as confident and cocky as he was earlier.
 
He says, I'm getting married on Sunday, and you must think I'm a creep. And maybe, maybe that sentence. Maybe that's the only honest sentence that Pete has said the whole episode.
 
And yes, Pete, we do. We think you're a creep, but maybe that is what works.
But I don't know, Peggy. Bad taste in men. Peggy. Bad, bad taste.
 
And so I. I don't know. So this is my question. If we're talking about chip and dip, this is our double dip, if you will.
Our point to ponder for our listeners. So why do you think Peggy lets Pete in the door? We will put the link in the show notes and we'll share some of our thoughts on an upcoming episode.
 
[01:21:16] So we would love to hear your thoughts about that.
 
Home Again
And as we move from there from her extremely bad taste in men to the final scenes, we've got Don traveling home on the train.
 
You've got him going into the house and this great shot of a hand turning on the bedroom light, which is revealed to be January Jones as Betty, his wife.
 
Steve: Yeah, we see the beautiful, dutiful wife. She's obviously happy to see him. She doesn't expect him to come home. He's gone from this high speed Madison Avenue lifestyle to pure suburbia.
 
Now he goes and tucks his two children into bed.
It really shows such a contrast with what we've seen of Don throughout the episode to see this is the world he comes back to. And the last scene of him is in the children's room rubbing their heads as they sleep with January Jones in the background.
 
And then it fades to black and then it goes to My Fair Lady.
 
[01:22:14] Jenna: Pete mentions this on the phone with Trudy. He says something like, oh, yeah, you know, the way these boys plan, we'll probably go watch My Fair Lady or something, which had been a musical on Broadway starting, I think, in 1956.
 
So at this point, this would have been four years old. So it's interesting to have this song as the closing song where it's like his life in the city is more modern and fast paced and his life at home is a little more old fashioned, a little bit more comfortable.
 
Back in the 50s On the Street Where You Live, which of course, you know, we're establishing the Draper residence and this whole second world - or third or depending, Don Draper has a lot of worlds - but establishing this whole other environment where he looks like a completely different person from the person we've gotten to know throughout the pilot.
 
Steve: And when I listen to the lyrics of the song, it really strikes me. It's talking about this sort of idealistic. Just on the street where you live, there's all this happiness and love and joy.
 
And when I look at Don Draper's face as he's sitting there in the dark, tucking his children in, I don't get a look of bliss and ecstasy that he's back home.
 
There's a look of questioning, I think a look of unease. That I read there, a look of pondering, which, again, I think maybe alludes to sort of the quandary of that character.
He's not at peace or at home in his suburban home, in his office, in any part of his life.
 
And he can come close and have moments in each of these places, but ultimately he's left with that alienation at its core and that sense of outsider.
 
Jenna: I think that's certainly true. But it is important to notice that in the scene with Betty, he's clearly into her. Like, there's clearly an attraction there. So whatever his infidelity is his - he has some kind of interest in Rachel Menken. He has an affair with Midge happening for however long it's been happening. But you can see he's very attracted to his wife, and that's a genuine thing.
 
So that adds a whole other layer of complexity to his different roles.
 
[01:24:15] Steve: Yeah, I totally agree with that. And I think that's true of. Of all the interactions he has, like, he. If he were just a faker and he was just putting on an act, I think it would be a lot easier maybe, for him to end the act or cut loose or to escape from it.
 
The fact that it's all swirled together with genuine love and affection and investment of himself, I think that's what creates the quandary for him as a character and is one of the things that holds him and prevents him from moving in one direction or another that might resolve some of these conflicts and competing desires,
that they're all part and parcel of him and he can't shed them even if he wants to.
 
[01:25:01] Jenna: Yeah. I think this show makes you uncomfortable to see so many potentially decent people lying and cheating and flawed. I mean, because they could be your friends and your colleagues and your spouses, and nobody wants to live in that world, but we all do.
 
And I think there's something about capturing the truth and the dishonesty, this real element of how fake people are that's distinctive and unique for television in a medium that's all about image.
 
So, I mean, just for a pilot and a show. Yeah. Chef's Kiss. Amazing.
 
Steve: Yeah, I think it's excellent. And I think we just know so much about Don after one episode, and we want to know more, and we want to get to know more of these characters that are around him.
 
So I think it's really brilliant.
 
Jenna: The next episode of Mad Men, Ladies Room introduces us to a few new cast members and gets a little bit closer to finding the show's rhythm. We'll break it down next time on all things Mad Men, from Chip and Dip to Zou Bisou.
 
[01:25:55] Subscribe so you don't miss an episode and leave your thoughts on each episode's Point to Ponder by visiting Mad Men C to Z dot com - that's Mad Men letter c, t o, letter z.com.
Thank you.
Steve: Thank you.
Closing outro music