Mad Men C to Z S5E4 Mystery Date Podcast Transcript

This is the full, human-edited podcast transcript for Mad Men C to Z Season five, Episode 4: Mystery Date. Sometimes the AI transcriptions released from various podcast platforms include name misspellings, errors in punctuation, or errors identifying the correct word or speaker.
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No more accordion for that guy

Mad Men C to Z S5E4 Mystery Date Podcast Transcript
 
Jenna: Hi, I'm Jenna.
 
Steve: And I'm Steve. Welcome to All Things Mad Men, from Chip and Dip to Zou Bisou.
 
Jenna: There's so much to love about this amazing show and we're happy to connect to fans like us who discover new things with each rewatch.
 
Steve: Be advised, while we aren't gratuitous with spoilers, they can pop up as we discuss character arcs through the final season.
Let's get started with Mad Men, C to Z.
 
Jenna: Hey, everybody. This is Mad Men Season 5, Episode 4, Mystery Date.
This episode was written by Victor Levin and Matthew Weiner and directed by Matt Shakman.
There's a lot in this episode that has a horror movie quality to it. You can find it in almost every scene, but there is also a lot about bargaining and negotiation. We see that with Sally and Pauline, Ginsberg, Joan and Greg, and most delightfully, with Peggy and Roger.
 
Steve: Do you think the horror elements integrate seamlessly into this episode of Mad Men, or do you think it's a bit of a distraction or diversion?

 
Jenna: Well, I'm biased because I'm not a fan of horror myself,
so I find this episode uncomfortable, and I don't really look forward to it on the rewatch.
 
But I get what they're trying to do with it and I think there are things about it that works. I like this episode better than the previous one overall, but I think some of it is a little self indulgent.
But again, you know, an okay episode of Mad Men is still a pretty good episode of TV.
 
Steve: If it makes you uneasy, I'm wondering if that's not a sign of the success of the horror elements, because isn't that what the horror is supposed to elicit from the viewer?
 
Jenna: How do you find it?
 
Steve: I like it all right. And I think it works. And I like horror as much as the next person.
And even though there is a bit of a fake out in this episode, in the moment, as the viewer, it works for me.
 
Jenna: Yes, I'm looking forward to getting into this, because I think there are places where it serves the story better than others. So as we talk about those scenes, we'll break that down.
 
Steve: The episode kicks off with Don and Megan in the elevator heading up to the office.
Don's coughing and clearly feeling under the weather.
 
When Andrea enters the elevator and immediately recognizes Don and starts to flirt with them. We have this awkward moment as Don introduces his wife.
 
Jenna: Andrea is played by Madchen Amick, and you might recognize her from Twin Peaks, Riverdale, or as Carter's social worker love interest on E.R.  (also, see our blog post about Gilmore Girls and Mad Men character crossovers)
 
It makes sense to me that the show gives us this conflict, because Megan has to feel this tension between the fact that she has this good looking guy who married her, and the fact that this good looking guy has slept with everybody already, basically.
 
And I think the way Megan confronts Don here is more interesting than how Betty turned a blind eye, because Megan brings up her feelings and she doesn't let Don brush her aside.
 
And I think it's a tricky line to walk for her character because she could seem overly needy,
but instead I think she comes across as having a valid frustration and she seems stronger because she's honest about how it makes her feel vulnerable, and she's demanding more from him in this moment.
 
Steve: Yeah, I think Megan acquits herself well because she doesn't let Don shift it to her or somehow she's overly sensitive, but she keeps the onus and responsibility where it actually resides, which is Don Draper.
And we know from when Bobbie Barrett said that, we know that he's very uncomfortable with this reputation being broadcast in the creative lounge.
 
 
Jenna: Stan has pantyhose on his head, which is the kind of goofy thing you'd expect,
but it's also a nod to the horror motif in this episode. It's a masked figure or a distorted face, even in the daylight.
 
And that feeling escalates when Joyce comes in with photos from Chicago.
Richard Speck held nine nursing students hostage that summer and killed eight women.
We'll link an article about that on our website, Mad Men C to Z
 
Steve: One thing I love about Mad Men is the humor. And I know it's not a comedy, but I think Stan with the pantyhose over his head, it's just so absurd and bizarre looking.
 
And then we realize as the scene develops and Joyce comes in with the photos that there's a dark tragedy that that's occurred simultaneous to this and unrelated to the pantyhose account that they're working on.
 
And as they get into the details of that, we see the different reaction of the various characters to the opportunity to look at these grisly crime scene photos.
 
Jenna: Stan is almost gleeful recounting what happened. And Peggy and Megan and Joyce all seem overly curious.
And I feel like this fascination with the grotesque is an interesting audience mirror.
It reminds me of the first season of The Boys, where there's all this graphic violence and injustice with the guise of heroism.
And you come to see how the audience is complicit in the problem with their celebrity worship.
 
And here we have this terrible reality, and so many of them are intrigued and want to be in on the awful secret of it.
 
Steve: You know, true crime has been extremely popular and continues to be very popular with the public, I think for some of the very reasons that these characters are showing this interest in the grisly reality of this awful crime.
 
It's not a great look for the characters, because there's been this awful carnage and these innocent victims. And yet what is the focus of these people? With the opportunity to see the photos, it seems like there's almost an element of stimulation and thrill and excitement.
There's this morbid curiosity.
All of these sentiments seem to be dominating for most of the characters.
Except for Michael Ginsberg.
 
Jenna: Yes. Ginsberg wants no part of this. He's not with the crowd, and he calls them out for being excited by it. They all have secrets, and we've yet to learn Ginsberg's.
But since we're re-watching, and we know something about his past,
it makes sense that he would be averse to this particular horror show.
 
And back to your point about true crime being so popular.
I'm not a horror fan or true crime follower. I just - I don't want to put that into my brain. It just sticks around and it bothers me.
But I think I'm in the minority on that, because those genres are so popular with so many people.
 
And in the commentary, Matt Weiner seems to suggest that this is a very human condition to be curious about the dark and the morbid.
 
Steve: One of the things I like about it is Mad Men goes there. It's willing to look at the warts and foibles and less appealing aspects of humans decades later.
 
This crime is so terrible and horrific, we can look up any number of awful photographs and images at any time with the aid of the Internet.
Going back to this time, it's a very unique  - and I hesitate to use this word, but opportunity - the characters are presented with that they jump on.
 
It's uncomfortable. But I think simultaneously we can also feel that the tug of that curiosity, even if it's maybe a corner of ourselves that we're not particularly eager to acknowledge.
 
Jenna: I think that piece is really important. And that's where I like the horror aspect of this episode.
There are other places where I don't like it as much, where it's too overt.
 
But that suggestion, because we're going to see that come up again later in the episode where it's the darkness within ourselves and it's not just the darkness within. Don Draper.
And I find that part very interesting. And I agree - I appreciate that Mad Men takes it there and makes us confront that.
 
Steve: And just a shout-out to Peggy as well, because in response to Michael Ginsberg denouncing it and exiting, Peggy does seem to feel that shame. It is untoward and it is unsightly, this interest. And she says aloud that Michael's correct.
 
 
Jenna: At Joan's apartment, we see Joan preparing for Greg to come home.
Her mother, Gail, seems to be determined to say all the wrong things.
And I love when Joan's response is, “Stop talking about men in general.”
That's kind of great.
 
I don't feel like Gail is trying to irritate Joan, even though she is doing it masterfully.
I feel like she's trying to prep Joan for all possible realities, so that she will be calm and perfectly unruffled when she sees Greg.
I feel like we all have that friend or relative who's like, hey, have a great trip. Hope you avoid hurricane season.
Thank you for that. [Laughing]
 
I think Joan surely has enough to worry about in her own head without Gail adding to the list.
 
Steve: I love the writing here. Gail is honestly trying to be helpful to Joan here, but it always comes at a price.
Gail really is trying to leverage her experience and knowledge to help Joan.
We know how capable Joan is and how thoughtful Joan is,
so we can also see her chafing at this idea that somehow she needs someone to counsel or advise her.
 
Jenna: Given the turn this episode takes,
it's interesting that there don't seem to be any seeds of that in this first scene.
We know it's Roger's biological child, but if Joan is nervous about that specifically, I don't see that at all.
 
Overall, she really looks like a woman who genuinely loves her husband, and she looks forward to seeing him. It doesn't seem like there's any hesitation about her feelings in this relationship.
 
Steve: And we've commented about this desire of Joan to subscribe to this fantasy or vision of what she wants out of this marriage and this relationship and for her life.
And it feels to me like Joan is really leaning into that and trying to make it true.
 
Which is interesting because, like you point out, we know there are a number of cracks,
all of which is conspiring against this relationship being the image or the ideal that Joan seems to be trying to present right now.
 
 
Jenna: In the next scene, Sally calls Don at his office. We find out Betty and Henry are away, and Sally hates being home with Henry's mother, Pauline.
 
Steve: I love the way they write Sally's dialogue.
Her complaints are exactly the sort of childlike complaints we might expect from a stricter grandma who thinks the kid needs more discipline and a more traditional upbringing.
I also like Don's responses on his side where he can't take Sally's side 100%. But he's trying to be empathetic, but also coach her to avoid blowing this up or making it any worse.
 
Jenna: Don throws a couple of darts at Henry on this call with Sally, which isn't his classiest move. He refers to their house as a haunted mansion and how Henry should be able to get a flight instead of having somebody drive them.
But he does support the general expectation that Sally cooperate with Pauline.
 
And when Sally asks him to come and get her, Don refuses.
And we know he's sick and he has an important meeting today,
but I also think this reflects a time period where kids had to suck it up if they were bored or or unhappy with their circumstances.
Nobody thought it was a bad thing if kids weren't being enriched for a five hour stretch.
 
I know Don can be self-involved, so his unwillingness to get Sally could look like a lazy, uninvolved parent by today's standards, but I think this is more about the era.
 
And later, when we see Pauline, she doesn't seem like a good fit babysitter for anybody. So I also don't really blame Sally.
 
Steve: Don knows darn well he can't have Sally live with him, so what would be the point of rescuing her? You're just exacerbating a situation that ultimately Sally needs to cope with and deal with.
 
Even if it wasn't the tough love old mentality. I think Don is practical and realistic enough to know that there is no white knight saving Sally without completely gumming up his own life, and he's not willing to do that.
 
Jenna: I might be overthinking this part, but Sally's line about Bobby wetting his pants at camp, it's delivered with the perfect disdain of a slightly older sister,
and maybe it's just a normal kid thing,
but it also might suggest Bobby's got some issues with his difficult mom, and his mostly absent dad and moving houses.
 
We get so little about his character, so we don't really know much about how he copes with being part of his family,
but it makes sense that there might be a few things that are a little bit off for him.
 
Steve: And growing up is just difficult, right? So I think that's a childhood challenge, and struggle that many have had and it's just a human moment and we can see the lack of empathy that Sally has for it.
 
 
Jenna: In the next scene. Michael Ginsberg walks Don through the beginning of his presentation and he has this plot planned joke.
And when he delivers it, he sounds like an actor, like it's somebody else talking.
And then when Don coughs and Ginsberg offers, “You could have TB,” [Laughing]
and there's him being himself again, like a light switch.
 
And I feel like he and Gail would get along really well and really enjoy all their catastrophizing.
 
Steve: We know Don’s sick, so we've got an excuse for him to perhaps not be paying as close attention.
But we know Don has been relatively unengaged with the business,
so everything seems to be fitting that pattern now.
 
Throw in his illness, and as long as there's nothing that's too far outside the lines, he's ready to just nod consent and get them out of his office as soon as possible.
 
 
Jenna: And now Greg arrives at Joan's apartment in uniform.
He takes the baby, and they have this picture-perfect moment,
this really brief snapshot of what Joan hoped her life could be.
 
They mention his flight and the airline workers strike that lasted 43 days.
The top workers were making $3.52 an hour,
and by some estimates, during the strike, 60% of United States flights were affected.
 
Steve: It's a picture-perfect reunion. Gail takes the hint to go run an errand so Greg and Joan can be alone together.
Greg looks great in his uniform, and is obviously thrilled to see Joan and then have some alone time with her.
And Joan seems genuinely happy with his arrival. So everything is textbook at this point.
What could possibly go wrong?
 
Jenna: I'm probably reading too much into this scene as well, but I noticed Joan is wearing her hair down. We've seen it up for most of the series, and her dress doesn't seem quite right. And I think that's intentional.
The print seems a little too large. It feels like the dress is wearing her.
She's trying hard to make this life with Greg fit.
 
And we remember he brought her roses the night he raped her at the office.
So in spite of things looking like they should be, it gives this tension of something being off.
And maybe it's even a nod to Beauty and the Beast. And that would fit with the footwear presentation talk about Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty earlier.
 
Steve: Yeah, I honestly, I didn't pick up on anything being off in this scene, so maybe I'm unobservant. Everything seems to be going peachy, as far as I can tell.
 
Jenna: No, I don't think between them, anything was wrong. I feel like it's the foreshadowing, it's the horror looming, right, that they're showing us through costuming that as much as everything seems okay in the daytime, there's really this dark element between them.
 
Steve: Yeah. Or like you point out, maybe it's a nod to just that classic horror trope where we are going from what seems to be perfect and everything is normal, and we know things are going to come undone, and it's just a matter of time. So this interlude is really just a setup for things going off the rails.
 
 
Jenna: At the office, Megan finds Don hunting for aspirin, and she says, I'm sending you home.
She looks really pretty in this sleeveless plum outfit she has on.
And Megan is showing care to Don, and he apologizes about this morning.
 
He's always oblique with his apologies,
but it feels like a very sincere step for Don. He's addressing the conflict.
He's not brushing it aside. He brings it up to make sure he says something to her.
I appreciate that in him.
 
Steve: It's interesting, too, that Megan doesn't just passively accept this.
She holds his feet to the fire.
When Don offers some lame excuses that, oh, it was a long time ago and I was unhappy,
Megan's response is, “careless appetite can't be blamed on Betty.”
 
This is a very strong scene for her where, again, she's somewhat unpredictable,
but she's advocating for her side and not letting him just escape, addressing that piece of it.
 
I don't get the sense that Don resents or chafes against being held to account.
I get the sense here that Don Draper sees Megan's point and continues to try to reassure her that he's married now, he wants to be with her, he has made a change.
He will continue to make this change going forward, compared to his prior self.
 
Jenna: Don absolutely has used sex as an escape.
And I'm not qualified to diagnose it as a sex addiction,
but it's like his sickness and his other sickness are showing in the scene.
 
And even though the conflict is uncomfortable, it seems like a very healthy thing for Don and Megan to have this conversation and get it out in the open.
You're sick, you need to go home,
and you've slept with a very large number of people while you were committed to someone else, and that is not what people do, you know, as they often say on Mad Men.
 
So Megan is pointing both of the things that these things out,
showing care, and she's in it with him.
 
Steve: She's in it with him, and she's also wary of the risk here. And I think by shining a light on it and being forceful about this risk, it's another indicator of just what a good partner Megan is, and her own commitment to this relationship, because she's watching out for the risks and threats to it and willing to speak up and fight for it.
 
Jenna: And I know better. I know better.
But this show is making me hope against all odds, that Don Draper can be healthy and make this work with Megan and find happiness.
 
And we talked a lot about Faye being better for Don because she held him accountable.
And here is Megan doing that.
I feel like it's maybe a slight writing critique, because we didn't get any inkling until Zou Bisou Bisou that Megan was very strong or independent.
Or maybe the moment she whistled at him in the hallway before the party,
maybe that was it.
 
And now it feels like she's more like we saw Faye being. She's loving and she's supportive,
but she also demands his honesty and his time.
 
Steve: Maybe that's our oversight as viewers making any assumptions about Megan's personality or character in the absence of any data, right, because the character is introduced and suddenly they're getting married.
 
And we've seen very little other than she's good babysitting the children,
and she's, you know, very attractive, and knows what she wants in terms of getting with Don Draper.
Now that we're learning more about her as a person, we're seeing that strength. And I feel a bit ashamed as a viewer to assume that someone like her wouldn't necessarily be expected to be a strong advocate for herself or that assertive.
 
Jenna: You're not wrong that that's a possibility . . . with any other show.
But as a multiple re-watcher, I'm watching this show and I'm watching her carefully to see where are the signs of this person coming, and we don't get any of it.
 
And for a show that so thoughtfully plants details about all of the characters and their arcs,
I just feel like they didn't give us a strong, independent Megan. There is nothing there to see that gives us that person she's becoming now.
 
And I think they needed to contrast her with Faye, so they didn't give us this independence at that point.
 
Steve: I do share that thought of I'm rooting for Don Draper to get himself sorted out and to not make the same mistakes of the past,
make an improvement of himself and commit going forward with Megan. In hindsight, it feels a little naive or hopeful, but I can't help it. That's the way I view the character.
 
And I am rooting for him.
Learn from your mistakes, Don Draper. Don't go down the same path.
 
 
Jenna: At Betty and Henry's house, Pauline is forcing Sally to eat her sandwich. And this feels like a very period thing to do.
I think it's Sally growing up and expressing preferences and trying to demand space in her home to live the way she wants to.
It's not just a childish, picky eater thing.
 
And Pauline is saying, you are a child, not an individual.
And I will tell you what you will or won't do, because I have all the power as an adult.
And it's a very different mindset from a lot of people today.
 
Steve: Yeah, that's what comes across to me is it's a power struggle. All the power is with the adults, and the children are seen but not heard. And it feels to me like Sally reflects that more modern approach.
 
This clash seems to almost parallel the culture clash and the generational clashes. But as well we know it's just this timeless story of the young bumping into the more traditional of the older generation.
 
We do get another peek here that as Pauline is reading the newspaper and reading about the murders in Chicago,
Pauline's trying to keep it from Sally, but at the same time not doing a very good job.
We can see Sally starting to sniff around it too. What is this story that seems to be so compelling to all the adults?
 
 
Jenna: Back at Joan and Greg's, Greg is making his own sandwich.
And I like this detail when he says, I had steak in Vietnam. I did not have bologna.
And it's so true. When you're away from home, you miss these things that were once part of your routine.
 
Steve: I love that detail as well, because I feel that these guilty pleasures, because the things that I'm missing aren't necessarily the best of the best or world class.
They're just what I'm used to. They're comforts.
Sometimes they're guilty pleasures that I'm almost embarrassed about.
And you do crave those.
 
And when you do get back home,
these are often the things that you seek out. Things seem to be going great here.
It looks like the reunion is proceeding well, until Greg springs on Joan that he has to go back for another year to Vietnam.
 
Jenna: Obviously, Joan is not really thrilled with this news.
And we get a truth call-out because Greg says, I know you're hearing a lot of horrible things.
It couldn't be further from the truth.
 
And Joan blames the military for breaking their agreement. And she says, oh, they're a bunch of liars.
And of course we're going to learn a bit later,
Greg isn't telling the whole truth here.
 
Steve: Yeah. And he tries to move the conversation and says, look, let's not waste our time together this way, being upset and angry.
And we can see Joan is in a much worse place and legitimately upset at this prospect of Greg going away again.
 
Jenna: I'm not old enough to remember the Vietnam War period,
but I am old enough to remember it being a very painful thing in the American identity, and how hard it was for soldiers, even if they did make it back.
 
I had a friend whose father fought in Vietnam, and he wouldn't put any trees in their yard because the anxiety of enemies hiding behind the trees was too much.
So my memory is about how bad Vietnam was, and how many lives were lost and the lies that came out about it.
 
And to see Greg so positive about his experience there seems jarring to me,
but it's also believable.
He feels valued in the army, so this is a thing he's dedicated himself to.
 
Steve: Well, and as well, I think, you know, in popular culture, we generalize about an experience, but the truth is there are thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions of individual experiences which are somewhere on that spectrum from great to terrible and everything in between.
 
In this particular case, where Greg is a surgeon, he works behind the lines. He's not out doing patrols in the jungle and getting ambushed by the enemy.
 
It makes perfect sense to me that his Vietnam War is a lot more comfortable and interesting than perhaps, you know, the version that is most commonly spoken about in popular culture.
 
We know that for Greg, he's got these issues about his masculinity and about his sense of purpose and achievement in the world,
and it seems that the army is ticking all the boxes for him.
 
Jenna: A little before this scene, Greg and Gail were talking about the riots, and Greg says he fights with African Americans in Saigon, and they're, quote, plenty brave.
 
And I think it would be easy if the writers added blatant racism to Greg, because he's probably one of the least likable characters on the show.
And maybe blatant racist would have been his story as a New York surgeon,
but his identity as an army doctor aligns him more with his fellow soldiers.
And I thought that was an interesting detail.
 
Steve: Yeah, I like it because to me, it shows the complexity of people.
And maybe now is as good a time as any to just talk a little bit about the riots that Gail is probably referring to.
The Hough Riots took place in Cleveland from July 18th to 24th of 1966.
It was sparked by racial tension. In a black neighborhood, a white bar owner had refused water to a black customer, and it ended up with a five day uprising which had four deaths, 50 injuries, over a million in property damage.
It involved the calling out of almost 2,000 National Guardsmen to restore order in Cleveland.
 
Similarly, in 1966, mid July, there were riots in Chicago on the west side when the police turned off a fire hydrant on a hot day.
And those riots required 1500 National Guardsmen to be deployed to restore order.
So we've got this bubbling cauldron.
 
And although the civil rights movement is often associated with the US south,
civil rights and race relations were a major issue in large American cities as well, such as Cleveland and Chicago. These were powder kegs waiting to be set off by incidents.
 
And then you have the cycle of violence from rioters committing violent acts, and then the authorities committing violent acts against the demonstrators and rioters,
and just the difficulty of discerning between the two groups.
 
As much as we're in this comfortable white professional environment on Mad Men,
we can see this unease and these issues in the news and media that they're reading,
and we can tell that this is very much part of the society they live in and they're trying to make sense of it.
 
And bubbling behind all of this is the gradual escalation of the Vietnam War, which just keeps ramping up throughout this period, from ostensibly military advisors who occasionally get involved in combat, to now 1966, where the US is starting to ramp up the deployment of combat troops, and starting to engage in major combat operations against the Viet Cong.
 
 
Jenna: At the presentation, we cut right to Ginsberg's practice joke he told Don earlier.
The clients love the pitch. It's sold, and everything's good as they're ready to leave.
And then Ginsberg starts talking to himself.
 
I don't know what it says about me that I relate to Ginsberg so much,
but when the client says, “You really know women,”
he feels compelled to answer honestly and explain himself.
 
And that leads to another idea he's been thinking about, and he shares it. And you get the sense here, now he's talking to himself. He has certainly forgotten he's in a room with a client, and he's there to do a job.
 
He's lost in the idea. And Ginsberg is a fantastic storyteller, even without any practice.
So off the top of his head, he paints a really dark picture.
 
Steve: It's the cliched story of Cinderella, which earlier, when Stan and Ginsberg were presenting that to Don, there was broad agreement and consensus that they weren't going to pitch to the cliche.
 
And now here is Michael going back down that path. And of course, the client loves it.
And we can just feel the tension in Don and Stan as Michael's gone off the reservation and now hooked the client on another idea, after they already had a yes on the prior one.
Obviously, there's going to be some sort of comeback on Michael for this faux pas.
 
Jenna: Well, there's also such a direct link between the horror genre and fairy tales.
And we know fairy tales were stories for children to caution them against danger,
and to teach them how to act.
 
And you could argue Mad Men is the ultimate fairy tale. You know, don't be like that guy. Ginsberg's line here at the end of his story:
“We know in the end she wants to be caught.”
That makes me think a lot, because at first I have a hard disagree on that.
It's not her wish to be captured.
 
But then I think about Cinderella and how this tale that's meant to teach young women to be sweet and kind no matter how hard life is, it's so destructive, because it seems like the ultimate prize is finding a prince to marry. And that's Joan's belief.
 
And it's a problematic tale for a lot of reasons, because Cinderella might want to step out from under the wicked stepmother, but she doesn't know the prince at all, and he doesn't know her, so it can't be real love.
So if she wants to be caught to escape one danger,
she might end up in another, different danger.
 
So the ultimate fairy tale is actually a horror story about dependence.
And I think the writers are trying to tie Ginsberg's story to the Chicago murders, but the idea that darkness is lurking in the promise of a dream come true,
that's very scary. And it's Joan's actual story.
 
Steve: Joan caught her prince,
but careful what you wish for, because with the warts and the rest of it, it may not end up being the happy ending that you envisioned,
even though from the surface, from 20,000ft away,
it looks like exactly the ideal, the fairy tale ending that you sought.
And appearances deceive.
 
 
Jenna: Immediately after this pitch, Don berates Ginsberg.
We know he's sick. We know he's been a little less involved since he married Megan.
So Don doesn't fire him, but we know he was ready to fire Pete for a similar offense. So it's kind of a skin of his teeth escape.
 
Steve: I think in a case where the client, let's say, was unhappy with the first idea and then unhappy with the second idea, I think he does get fired.
 
I suspect that what saves Ginsberg in this situation is the first idea was a winner,
the second idea is a winner, so you've got a happy client, which is such a ruling factor.
 
I love when Ken says to him, you know, you just about got fired right now.
And Ginsberg says back, I don't think so.
And Ken, the lack of any sort of doubt, he goes, I'm positive.
 
Michael being in his own funny world and somehow managing to miss this warning shot that went right by the bridge of his ship.
 
Jenna: I also think this scene completely captures the essence of Don and Ginsberg,
in spite of the famous meme people like to attribute mostly to both of them.
I love this bit. Ginsberg says,
in your heart, you know it was good.
 
And Don has a really funny line about, in my heart, I'm thinking about throwing you in front of a cab.
But Ginsberg is about the truth of the work,
and Don says,
think of those ideas in front of me.
 
And as a boss, Don is not wrong about insisting on a process.
But for a guy who stands up as the creative example,
he sure is a lot about making sure he gets credit for the good stuff.
In his heart, he does know Ginsberg's idea was good and interesting.
And unlike Peggy, we can already see that's threatening to him.
 
Steve: I think I don't get a sense that Don feels any sort of threat.
My perception here is Don is representing the agency and in many ways is now compromised from the pure creative genius who would kick clients out of the office and fight with the account men, to now Don as a responsible executive.
 
And when he gets a yes from the client and knows that they can now start making the donuts and earning some money,
wants to get on with that, it feels to me like now the new Don or the new uncontrollable creative who's losing sight of the actual purpose here in his devotion to the creative mission is Michael Ginsberg.
 
And I wonder if that doesn't give Don a little bit of sympathy or empathy for where Ginsberg's coming from being pure creative.
But simultaneously, Don is not going to brook any dissent, and Ginsberg needs to stay in line.
 
Jenna: I think it's a plausible position for Don.
And because he's so - because Ginsberg is so invested in the creative part,
I want Don to have more connection with him as a character.
 
And maybe this is just me with hindsight watching back and knowing where they're going,
but I feel like instead of applauding the genius of him,
he's on guard because Don Draper, he's the only genius allowed. Any geniuses in his stable are a result of his mentorship and training, right?
 
And here is Ginsberg. He's just out of the bottle, like you can't contain him.
That is a threat for somebody who's used to being the most interesting man in the room.
 
Steve: In this case, my perception is there's no creative jealousy or concern here.
It's the notion of messing with something that isn't broken. The client has already said yes. They need to now start making hay.
And Ginsberg threatens to muck that up by throwing an additional idea out.
In any event, I love the Ginsberg character, and the scenes with him are never dull.
 
Jenna: After the meeting, Don goes home and lies down. There's a quick scene between Pete and Roger where Pete checks in about Mohawk and the campaign.
 
Roger has one client, and he didn't do his job.
What the hell, Roger?! [Laughing]
He was so offended when Pete said he would run the show and check up on Roger.
And then it turns out Pete needed to check up on Roger.
 
I mean, this sets up one of my favorite scenes in the entire show, but I don't find it at all believable that Roger would blow this off.
 
Steve: And what's going through Roger's head, because what else is in there, right?
Like, his marriage with Jane is not going well. He has nothing else to do at work.
So I just - I struggle to even guess what is distracting Roger from looking after his one client, his one account.
And even when Pete comes into the office, the lights are turned off.
Roger's lounging in the chair. It's a terrible look for Roger.
 
 
Jenna: So Pete leaves the office, and Roger tiptoes over to find Ginsberg, and he finds Peggy instead.
This is one of my top five favorite scenes in the show of all time.
 
Roger needs Peggy to do an emergency campaign over the weekend by herself for Mohawk.
And remember all those people who put together that campaign for American Airlines? This is a big, big ask.
There's no background information.
 
And Roger insisted she hire Ginsberg because Mohawk wanted a man for their work.
And now she has to do it anyway. I mean, already, it's ridiculous.
 
Steve: And Roger's so demanding here, in a position where he really isn't in a position to be demanding. And Peggy pierces right through to that.
So as she's sticking it to him, it's such a delicious scene, because Peggy knows she holds all the cards.
 
And for all his bluff and bravado, she just keeps deflating him at each point.
Roger is going to have to accept whatever Peggy demands in the moment.
 
Jenna: There was a scene in an earlier season where Roger asks, Don, what are you doing tonight? And Peggy answers, thinking he was talking to her, and he doesn't even know her name.
 
And here Peggy's in her own office with her feet up, and she's drinking, and Roger says,
what are you doing tonight?
And Peggy's a little flirty, and she goes, I don't know. What did you have in mind?
It's so lovely.
 
And normally I feel like Roger would be up for something, but he's professionally desperate right now.
He threatens to fire her, and Peggy's totally unruffled.
And Peggy saying,
“Dazzle me” is priceless, completely amazing.
 
And she gets $400 out of Roger, which would be around $4,000 today.
Harry got paid a lot more for doing a lot less work.
 
Steve: And it is an interesting insight into the different worlds they live in, where Roger's walking around with that kind of money in his pocket, because we know through the sale of the firm, he's got millions of dollars.
 
So money is the one thing Roger Sterling has, even if he lacks an attention span, and focus and professionalism and commitment to the job.
 
Peggy tells him to give her all of it,
then threatens to take his watch when he balks at that.
She used to have to do this kind of work as just part of her salary,
and now she's managed to negotiate a great little bonus for herself to do the work.
 
Jenna: “There's some portfolios in Joan's office. Maybe you can find somebody tonight.” Love, love this scene.
 
Steve: I like how Roger whines, too, when he goes, why are you doing this to me?
 
Jenna: “You're being very demanding for somebody who has no other options.” [Laughing]
 
Next, Don, lying down, hears the doorbell, and it's Andrea from the elevator that morning.
He's angry, and he's frightened to see her. And we know he's feeling sick, but we rarely see him so out of control and desperate like this.
 
And I think on first watch, this might seem real and not like it's part of a dream or a hallucination.
It feels like his subconscious is fighting this battle, that he's got this dark pattern inside, and he wants to overcome it and be faithful to Megan.
 
Steve: Yeah, as a viewer, this looks real to me. And I think we see Don Draper trying to be the good guy here.
He wants her out of there.
There is an element of he doesn't want Megan to come home and find her there, so I guess we could argue, perhaps it's not the strongest ethical stance, just a practical reality.
 
But he does usher her out the back door. Andrea doesn't seem to want to take no for an answer, but Don knows he's got to get her out of there and she leaves.
 
 
Jenna: And this transitions us to Sally and Pauline, which with a commercial for a board game called Mystery Date.
I'll link the full commercial on the episode page of our website, Mad Men C to Z.
I had never heard of this game, but apparently you open a plastic door, and there's a card with a picture of a guy on it and he's dressed for swimming or prom or something.
 
It kind of feels like a precursor to the Bachelor, but it was marketed for girls ages 6 to 14.
Again, this seems very Cinderella ish for women to play a game fantasizing about the perfect guy coming to their door, juxtaposed with the horror of the Speck murders and Andrea showing up at Don's house.
 
Steve: Pauline is on the phone talking about the murders with a friend,
and then she notices that Sally is listening in.
So Sally's curiosity about this is getting the best of her.
And then when Pauline asks Sally to take out the trash,
Sally tries to negotiate that if she does that, Pauline will tell her about the murders.
 
Jenna: Sally has an interesting line when she says,
“I know you don't think so, but I'm a good person.”
And I don't know if Sally's necessarily a good person in this episode.
She wants to lie around and watch TV and get her way,
but Pauline isn't treating her well.
And it comes out that Pauline's father was strict and abusive,
and Pauline sees that as a net positive.
 
And it's a little weird, because earlier she said to Henry, those children are afraid of Betty.
And here it seems like Pauline believes some fear is beneficial.
 
Steve: And the story is so horrific: her father kicking her for no reason at all and telling her to look out, you know, I don't know. It reminds me of the military: expect the unexpected.
Yeah, okay, great. Let me work on that.
 
Jenna: And there's also some judgment of Betty not raising Sally correctly.
So no matter how good Sally might be, it seems like Pauline is happy to discover flaws that prove Betty's doing parenting wrong.
 
Steve: Even when those flaws are spun into virtues when Pauline reminisces about her father.
 
 
Jenna: At dinner with Joan, Gail, and Greg's parents, Greg is very happy to be together, but his mother can't keep quiet.
It turns out Greg volunteered to go back to Vietnam for a year.
He wasn't forced to go back as he implied to Joan.
 
At first, Joan stands up for Greg being brave about going back.
But it's the lie that gets her, not the extra time apart.
They need me, Greg says.
So his priority is clearly not their family.
 
Steve: And as well, he's told the truth to his parents, but not told the truth to his spouse.
So I think there's an additional hurt here, too.
 
Jenna: It's perfect that the accordion player in the restaurant comes over right as Joan learns something disappointing about Greg.
 
It's just like at their dinner party, when Greg insisted she played the accordion after she found out the disappointing news he wasn't a good surgeon.
And it's so awkward and painful.
 
I hope nobody has ever had to endure a dinner as terrible as that one, because I feel pain just watching.
 
Steve: It really is terrible and if you planned it, you couldn't have made it turn out worse than it has turned out.
 
 
Jenna: At the office, Peggy is working late on Mohawk, and she hears a noise.
It's dark except for her desk lamp, and there's a close up of her opening the door handle to Don's office, like a horror movie.
That to me seems pretty self indulgent, but it's okay. I will allow it.
 
Peggy finds Dawn, Don's secretary, and she's planning to spend the night on the couch.
She makes reference to some riots in Bedford Stuyvesant, meaning she can't get home safely.
A cab won't take her all the way, and her brother says he doesn't want her to take the subway alone.
 
Peggy mentions her boyfriend is in Chicago writing about the riots, and she invites Dawn to stay at her place for the night.
Did you feel like she was being too pushy here with Dawn, or do you think she was just being kind?
 
Steve: I think she's being kind, but what's interesting here is I feel like Dawn is opening a window into another reality, another existence that Peggy just doesn't really think about.
 
This idea that if Dawn doesn't leave the office before 7pm she basically can't get home.
And that these riots, which Peggy is reading about in the newspaper in places like Chicago or the Hough neighborhood of Cleveland.
For Dawn, there's civil unrest where she lives.
 
(It’s) the two solitudes here, where Peggy is somewhat oblivious and wrapped up in her own life, and just by a little bit of interaction here with Dawn is getting a peek at an entirely different reality.
 
I think it's a nice gesture for Peggy to offer Dawn to stay at her place, and I think we can see Dawn's discomfort with the suggestion. But Peggy won't take no for an answer.
So Dawn is going to spend the evening at Peggy's place.
 
Jenna: I see a mix. I think Peggy is trying to reach out and get to know Dawn and do a nice thing.
But she also seems a little like she's performing for herself.
Like, I can take care of this person, without really paying attention to whether Dawn wants her care.
 
 
In the next scene, Don is having a fever dream when Andrea shows up again.
She kisses him.
We see him resist, but then he gives in.
Megan was right about that appetite.
 
Steve: Yeah. And I think we see Don fighting with himself to resist.
In the end, he doesn't resist and he initiates. And I think that puts the onus of responsibility back on him.
So he's really failing to live up to the commitment he's made to Megan at this moment.
 
We also see him doing this in his bed at his apartment and have no idea where Megan is and when she may come back.
So it seems like a really high-risk move in addition to being reckless and disrespectful of his marriage.
 
 
Jenna: I really appreciate Elisabeth Moss in the scene at her apartment with Dawn, because I think her drunk performance is very natural. It has silly moments and it has quieter moments. It's not over the top.
 
And you can see Peggy wants to rescue Dawn.
Like, if she wants to be a copywriter, Peggy would like to be the person in that role who lifts somebody else up.
 
But Dawn, being an individual human and frankly, not knowing Peggy well enough to trust her, she either isn't interested, or she keeps the pretense of liking her own job.
I mean, she's polite, but her guard is always up. And I think we can understand that.
 
Steve: Yeah, and I think we notice that Peggy is quite buzzed at this point from the drinks they've had. So Peggy is opening up, and confessing some things and getting quite personal.
So there is an interesting dynamic here as Peggy's trying to reassure Don that, you know, she can trust her, and that everything said here will be in confidence.
And we can see Don's caution.
And she doesn't want to cross Peggy, because she knows Peggy was promoted into a copywriter job. But she makes clear that she's not interested in that for herself.
 
Jenna: This scene reminds me a lot of the one when Bobbie Barrett spent the night at Peggy's place.
There, Bobbie was trying to offer advice, and Peggy has her guard up, and she doesn't reveal very much.
And here Peggy thinks she has a lot of advice to dispense, while Dawn is keeping her guard up with Peggy.
 
And when I look at pain points in this series,
every character has mistakes and flaws, and I think that's what makes the show great.
Some are a lot worse than others.
And this scene is one for Peggy.
 
And it's so painful because if we're in a horror movie,
what's worse than realizing you are the monster, that you're the scary thing?
 
Peggy has this moment where she looks at her purse, and she thinks about moving it away from Dawn.
And Dawn sees that moment, and it's ugly and it's there in the room with them.
And I hate when Peggy does this,
but I love that the show gives us this moment, because it's this ugly truth reflected in somebody you can otherwise root for.
 
She's not Harry or Lee Garner Jr. but she pauses to think about whether Dawn is going to take her money, before she realizes she's giving into these racist stereotypes.
 
And we don't know much about Dawn at this point, but we can imagine this moment reinforces the guard she keeps up. It's necessary.
It reminds me of how Peggy had to nod and smile when men were saying lecherous things and touching her without permission.
She had to act as if it didn't harm her to be treated that way.
 
Steve: Yeah, I agree it's so painful, but it simultaneously feels so real and true to the complexities of our human reality.
So even as liberal Peggy, who's trying to be progressive and open minded and earn Dawn's trust, simultaneous to that, Peggy is a product of her society, and the prejudices with which she was brought up.
 
And they rear their ugly head in this moment, this instant. And it's very subtle.
So there's plausible deniability on both sides. But it's very clear from the scene that they both realize what's occurred.
I guess it's another thing I love about this series, because it doesn't let us escape from from these painful truths about our complexity as humans.
 
And we don't always take the high road or we aren't always the best angels of our nature.
And that's true for all characters. So we don't just have simple villains who we can hate on and virtuous heroes who are pure as driven snow.
 
This is probably one of the most subtly wrenching moments of the series in my opinion, because it doesn't pack the gut punch of some of the other moments, but in its own way this is a profound critique of our society.
 
 
Jenna: I think Betty was eating Bugles on the sofa when Pauline came over to tell Betty to take diet pills.
And here Pauline is eating Bugles, reading a book.
Sally scared herself reading the newspaper about the murders.
So now she's come to sit with Pauline, who is the opposite of comforting.
 
She ends up walking Sally through every lurid detail of the crime.
In a way, the way that Pauline focuses on the scary story, and not comforting Sally,
it's similar to what Gail does to Joan.
She's implying all the scary things that can possibly go wrong.
 
Steve: And I think Pauline kind of loses herself in the telling of the story.
So we know that Pauline is obsessed with it.
She's been talking about it with her friends, and I think she just loses sight of the fact she's talking to a young girl now, and she just starts to run with the story.
 
And we can tell how stimulating and exciting and scary it is to Pauline.
And I think all of those sentiments are just multiplied for Sally, who can't even put it into the context of several additional decades of life experience.
If Sally couldn't sleep after reading the newspaper article,
this is definitely not going to help matters.
 
Jenna: In the commentary, Matthew Weiner talks about Pauline being turned on by the violence.
I don't get that from this exactly.
I think people sometimes revel in bad news about things happening to other people.
Maybe it's relief that in spite of all the hard things, at least they're not dealing with that particular thing.
 
But Pauline is certainly fascinated by the story.
For somebody who thought boundaries for Sally were so important,
she definitely forgets about them.
 
I mean, remember, we thought Grandpa Gene's read-aloud choice was too mature.
So this news story Pauline shares is definitely a lot more detailed than Sally needs to hear.
So when Sally says, I'll never get to sleep now, Pauline gives Sally half of a Seconal pill to help her sleep, which is a highly addictive pill, and it resulted in a number of fatal overdoses and it's not available anymore.
I mean, Sally really cannot catch a break when it comes to trusting a guardian.
 
Steve: I'm just happy that the pharmaceutical industry has a solution for this problem.
 
Jenna: Back at Joan and Greg's apartment, they're yelling at each other.
He wants her to cheer for him and support him for going back.
And Joan's argument is, you can't make a decision like that without me.
 
And Greg has the right to want to do the career of his dreams,
but I don't get any sense he has empathy for Joan's feelings,
even though his career affects her.
 
As soon as she's not supportive, he gets hurt and angry.
He just needs to feel like he's in charge and he doesn't.
 
Steve: I think there's also an interesting element here where Joan's mom is trying to advocate for Greg's decision in the relationship, and get Joan to accept it and talks about, oh, you know, you can go through another year and you can manage, I'll help.
 
I think Gail has the best of intentions here, but I think it shows the real difference between Gail and Joan.
Joan is of this new generation.
Joan, as much as she's tried to make this marriage and relationship work,
is at a breaking point in a way that Gail would not permit herself to get to it.
 
So I think we can see Gail's puzzlement and frustration with the fact that she just can't reach Joan at this point.
And it becomes clear Joan has made a very serious decision despite the efforts of Greg and Gail to talk her out of it.
 
Jenna: Joan isn't perfect.
She cheated on Greg.
But Greg's not Prince Charming, and Joan isn't an innocent, gentle Cinderella.
 
This is the monster they don't talk about. This is the horror show between them.
It's in the house, it's all around them.
And Gail wants Joan to push it back into the shadows.
And we can see Joan is ready to drag it into the light and do battle with it.
 
Steve: And I think as well, in Joan's fantasy of what the marriage and a relationship would represent,
we can see that Greg took this decision in complete isolation of that relationship, and in fact doesn't even honestly tell her about his decision that he took in isolation until it's brought up at the dinner with the mother.
 
So that seems to be the sticking point here for Joan, because she can wallpaper over so many other aspects of this relationship and their failings and avoid looking at them.
But at its core, this lack of real partnership and collaboration,
that's a big gulf and difficult to bridge.
 
 
Jenna: Back at Don's apartment, Andrea is leaving and Don feels guilty. She says, you are sick.
And this is Don's horror story, that he's broken and unfixable and unlovable.
 
Steve: And she seems to taunt him with these aspects of his personality, which makes sense in hindsight when we realize what this sequence represents.
But you know, “it's a mistake you love making” and “you love it because you're sick.”
So we've got that self-loathing wrapped up in this and she's confronting him with that side of himself.
 
And I think his response, his violence and his anger is getting back to the fact that this does touch a truth in terms of his own self perception of what he's like.
And the scene goes completely off the rails in terms of this horror theme where a naked Don chokes Andrea in rage and then kicks her under the bed.
It's really shocking and horrific, especially in a series which has so little violence or this type of action sequence.
 
Jenna: And just like Cinderella, she only has one shoe on sticking out from under the bed.
 
Steve: Don Draper doesn't do a very good job of hiding the body in this case.
 
Jenna: If this had been real and not a dream, this plot would have taken a really ridiculous turn. I dislike the darkness in this episode and particularly in the scene, but I get what they're trying to do with it.
 
Marrying Megan didn't magically cure Don of his self-doubt or loneliness or whatever else drives him to abandon people who trust him.
And if he symbolically vanquishes that monster, maybe he can actually move forward.
 
Steve: I think the problem here though is he has indulged, and now he's making the evidence of his indulgence go away, at at least for the context of the dream.
As imperfect as the hiding of the body,
he can't undo the indulgence which has taken place as far as the dream is concerned.
And it was consensual at that point. He's the one who initiates the sexual interaction.
 
 
Jenna: The next morning, Betty and Henry come home to find Pauline asleep on the couch and Sally's asleep underneath it.
It's daylight. Sally's safe. Maybe she will be a survivor. We hope that for her.
 
Steve: I like when he finds the giant kitchen knife too, and sort of puzzles at why they have a kitchen knife with them as they're sound asleep in the living room.
 
Jenna: Don wakes up and realizes it was all a dream. He takes Megan's hand, and he tells her, “you don't have to worry about me.”
And she knows he means infidelity.
I mean, I feel like maybe you do though, Megan.
But he's trying here.
 
Steve: We understand why Don Draper would say that to her. But again, he has failed.
In the dream, he was unfaithful.
Okay, he murdered the person he was unfaithful with -
I'm not sure that's what being faithful means, that you eliminate anyone you commit adultery with.
 
So I'm with you on that. If I'm a betting man, I'm going to look at past performance as indicative of future results here.
 
Jenna: Just for the record, if I discover infidelity, I am not mollified by the idea that you then killed the woman. That doesn't make it better.
 
Steve: Even if the body is properly disposed of?
 
Jenna: Partially disposed of. Still in the room, still under the bed.
 
Steve: I guess it's okay for the first couple days.
 
 
Jenna: In the light of day, Joan wakes up and comes into the dining room.
She tells Greg she wants him to go and never come back.
Am I the only one who hears Gollum and Smeagol in that line?
I feel like that's a little extra monster nod.
 
Joan has some pretty cold lines for Greg, and he deserves all of them.
She says she's sick of trying to make him feel like a man,
and this is at the heart of his issue.
He wants to be in control of the relationship and he's not.
 
And she finally calls him out for not being a good man,
and you know what I'm talking about.
And he doesn't say anything to that.
 
Steve: We can see that side of him manifesting in this scene as well as he gets really enraged at this, and he almost seems unbelieving that she could be reaching this conclusion.
And he physically grabs her.
 
Joan is completely cool and collected the whole time, and I think that gives her a power and a majesty in this scene that I think spooks Greg in a way.
If she acted scared or started to flinch, I think he would feel that, you know, his physical imposition was working.
The fact that she reacts so coolly and calmly to it,
I think robs it of any sort of power or impression that he's hoping to make here.
 
Jenna: So it's over. He walks out the door.
 
I have a lot of respect for Joan resetting her life, because we know she was raised with a particular dream, and she carried that dream to her early 30s.
And there was no reason she shouldn't have ended up with everything she wanted.
But it didn't work out that way.
 
So instead of pretending it into existence like she tried to do at the beginning of this episode and before that, she's going to depend on herself.
She's going to have a baby, and she's going to have a job she loves.
 
It's a weird societal expectation that Joan can be married to somebody terrible, and he can leave her with a new baby, and that's okay.
But Peggy can't be an unmarried mother.
 
Steve: Well, and it feels to me, too, that Joan is not just kicking Greg out the door, she's kicking that whole societal expectation out the door. She's not adhering to it.
She won't adhere to it again.
That fantasy is dead in her.
 
Another brilliant aspect of this scene is just the look on Gail's face at the end of It.
Because we can see that this fantasy still exists in Gail. She's been trained to this.
This is the way things work.
She can't fathom that her daughter would make this sort of decision and then forcefully impose it upon her spouse, as Joan has just done to Greg.
 
And that juxtaposition between the two of them and their life perspective and choices,
to me, it's just brilliant at showing that divide between the two of them.
And as reassured and confident and determined as Joan seems in this scene,
Gail, by contrast, is bewildered.
Where does this leave her daughter and her grandbaby?
 
Jenna: That's a great point.
Joan sitting there calmly drinking her coffee, knowing she's got what it takes to take care of herself.
And Gail sitting there, not even arguing the point, looking shaken.
 
Steve: And we know Gail loves Joan, and is an advocate for Joan, and wants the best for Joan.
And yet Joan has just burned down the very world that Gail thought and built and would provide for her daughter.
It's a really powerful scene. And amidst the dream sequence and some of the other diversions, I think here this is a major turn in Joan's life now as a character on the show.
 
 
Jenna: In the last scene, we get Gail on the bed asleep with Kevin between Gail and Joan, he's wrapped in a little blanket.
And Joan's awake, thinking.
 
For an episode set up like a horror movie, with secrets and monsters lurking under the bed or characters hiding under beds,
I like this deliberate choice that they're all on the bed together.
They're on top of the covers, they're in the light.
 
So it won't be easy ahead, but Joan is done pretending and hiding how Greg looked right, but wasn't right for her.
 
Steve: You know, Joan's lying there with her eyes open.
She is not oblivious to the uncertainty that lurks for her in the future. You know, she really doesn't have now a clear plan or vision of what the future looks like.
She just knows what she's cleared out from the past.
And that feels honest to me as well.
 
It's one thing to draw a line and cut off the past.
That doesn't clarify the future necessarily.
And there's a lot of unanswered questions as we go forward.
And I really feel those questions hovering above Joan as she lays there with two people who love her the most in her world at this point, you know, her mother and her baby.
 
 
Jenna: And in nominations for emotionally damaging song lyrics that compromise our relief for Joan's new start,
we get “He hit me and it felt like a kiss.”
 
It's performed by the Crystals.
Apparently it was written by Gerry Goffin and Carole King after they found out their babysitter was being abused by her boyfriend, and they were trying to understand why she stayed with him, and that was a line she said.
 
King later said she regretted having anything to do with the song.
Interestingly though, when you Google that song title, the first result is the National Domestic Violence Hotline. So I feel like the world isn't all bad.
 
Steve: I enjoyed the horror elements of this episode and I did enjoy the little diversion of Don Draper's dream nightmare, because as a viewer I'm falling for it, and thinking this show has just gone completely off the rails, at least the first time through.
 
I like seeing that battle within his own mind, because I think sometimes that's a piece we lack in Mad Men is that internal struggle of Don Draper of what he's thinking and doing, at least now that he's quit journaling.
 
I also like Peggy confronting her own assumptions and stereotypes and prejudices in the context of Dawn's world.
And then I just think it's a really strong ending with Joan terminating the relationship with Greg.
I'm excited for the character now that she's free and clear of what I think was a misguided fantasy, in my opinion, about what she needed to be, and where she needed to get to in life.
And I'm curious about where she heads next.
 
Jenna: Next week we'll be talking about Signal 30, which is a really interesting, distinctive episode.
I feel like that episode takes a thematic risk and gets it right, whereas these last two have been maybe a little less effective from my point of view.
 
Our listener shout-out today goes to Carla in Michigan.
Thank you for listening and commenting, and we hope you're still able to find us on Podcast Addict, as well as other platforms.
 
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Steve: That's it for this episode of All Things Mad Men, from Chip and Dip to Zou Bisou.
Visit our website, Mad Men C to Z dot com to vote for your favorite Sterling Lines and to share your opinions on our Double Dip questions for each episode.
 
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Steve: Thanks for listening, everybody.