Mad Men C to Z Podcast Transcript for A Little Kiss, Part 2

This is the full, human-edited transcript for our Mad Men C to Z discussion of Season 5, Episode 2: A Little Kiss, Part 2.
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Mad Men C to Z Podcast Transcript for S5E2: A Little Kiss Part 2
 
Jenna: Hi, I'm Jenna.
 
Steve: And I'm Steve. Welcome to All Things Mad Men, from Chip and Dip to Zou Bisou.
 
Jenna: There's so much to love about this amazing show, and we're happy to connect to fans like us, who discover new things with each rewatch.
 
Steve: Be advised, while we aren't gratuitous with spoilers, they can pop up as we discuss character arcs through the final season.
Let's get started with Mad Men C to Z.
 
Jenna: This is season five, episode two, A Little Kiss, Part Two.
This episode was written by Matthew Weiner, and directed by Jennifer Getzinger.
This episode is set in the early summer of 1966, after Megan throws a surprise party for Don.
 
This episode shows us several characters getting the message that you can't be this thing you want to be.
We see that for Megan, for Lane and Joan, and of course, it's always in the shadows for Don.
 
Steve: As the second half of the episode opens, we have Lane in a cab where he finds a wallet.

 
Jenna: I'm not in love with this particular storyline with Lane in this episode.
I feel like it takes up too much space for what it accomplishes, which I think is to establish Lane's discontent.
 
We know Rebecca is back in New York with him; we saw them at the party together.
So Lane has reset his marriage, which never seemed all that happy, but he's trying.
 
We saw that with Don and Betty, too. I mean, they tried being back together, so I don't know that we're very optimistic about this working.
 
For the moment, finding a wallet and a photo in a cab seems like a big adventure for Lane. This is his escape from his humdrum life.
 
Steve: I'm kind of curious how Lane lured his family back across the Atlantic, because we know his wife Rebecca was really unhappy here and basically stormed back to England in a huff.
 
Late last season when Lane's father struck him and told him to get his family affairs in order, I kind of assumed that this meant Lane would have to return to England, but that's not what's happened.
 
I would like to know a little bit more about the character and how he got back to this place.
 
Jenna: I agree. I think the actors who play Lane and Rebecca have a really great chemistry together, so I always appreciate their scenes, and I would much rather have seen that storyline take place than have this kind of odd-to-me storyline with a wallet.
 
At home that same morning, Don Draper isn't snuggling with Megan or enjoying breakfast with his kids.
Don is alone.
He's using the new shaving brush from his kids and he looks in the mirror.
Don avoids confronting himself a lot of the time, but every once in a while it catches up to him.
 
Steve: He doesn't look too happy as he stares at himself in the mirror, shaving.
 
Jenna: I also noticed that the radio is announcing heavy surf in North Carolina.
The summer of 1966 saw a lot of hurricanes.
So much like the protest in episode one this season,
this too is a hint of upheaval, of these storms brewing.
 
Pete is in Lane's office first thing and he asks if Masters and Johnson are in, referring to Don and Megan after the party, of course.
 
William Masters and Virginia Johnson researched human sexuality, and they founded an institution for their research in St. Louis in 1964.
Masters of Sex is a four-season show about Masters and Johnson that aired during the later seasons of Mad Men, and it includes a lot of Mad Men crossover connections, including directors Jennifer Getzinger, Leslie Linka-Glatter, and Phil Abraham,
as well as actors Rich Sommer, who plays Harry, Anne Dudek, who plays Francine, Melinda Page Hamilton, who plays Anna, and Alexa Alemani, who plays Allison.
So if you're a fan of those actors and directors, it might be something to check out.
 
Steve: Lane's wife calls Lane, and there's an issue with Nigel's tuition payment.
And we can see as Lane goes through the wallet he found,
he's trying to allay his wife's concerns about this unpaid bill, reassuring her that it's nothing more than the school wanting to be paid promptly, and they have plenty of time before the actual session for which the tuition applies.
 
Jenna: And I get the sense that Rebecca is trying to get along, I think.
She's not complaining about New York. She's calling him to say, you know, I know you were upset when you left this morning, maybe I'm overreacting.
So I can see them trying to get a reset here.
 
But in this, we learn that they have these money troubles.
And I feel like it's another good conflict in Mad Men where we have an argument between two people who have relatable positions, because Rebecca says,
“Couldn't you pay the school fees early?”
And that interest they'd be collecting is a price to soothe her peace of mind about their son's spot at school.
 
And Lane doesn't want to get into the details when they likely have a pretty fragile detente anyway.
 
And I was thinking about these money troubles, because we don't see Lane gambling or living large.
So he might have spent some on club memberships and his girlfriend.
But the only other big expense we know about has been the 50,000 he put into SCDP as a junior partner back in September.
 
Remember, Pete, the other junior partner had $22,000 in savings, and then Trudy didn't want to invest in the company, but Don paid his share.
So even if Lane had twice as much savings,
it's still conceivable he could be feeling short on money with that expense, and that he didn't tell Rebecca about it because she would probably feel similarly to Trudy about just leaving SEDP behind.
 
Steve: And I get the sense that he's being a bit deceptive with Rebecca here and not owning up to the fact that it's not an option to clear this bill.
They don't have the cash.
 
Lane is the money man. He knows where the finances of the family sit and Rebecca is somewhat in the dark. Lane is trying to reassure her that everything's fine and it's almost a choice not to pay this bill.
 
Jenna: Lane gets distracted by a photo of a woman he finds inside the wallet as he's on the phone with his wife.
It's clear Rebecca doesn't really have his full attention as a life partner, so he never plans to tell her about the financial issues. He's going to brush them aside.
Anything as trivial as a photo of a stranger in a wallet can deserve more of his attention than she does.
 
 
Steve: The next scene is back at Joan's apartment.
 
Jenna: When Joan comes back to her apartment, she finds her mother entertaining the handyman, Apolo, and bouncing the baby.
 
Steve: We could see Joan is none too pleased, but we could see how thrilled Joan's mom is with having Apolo's attention.
Despite the assistance of Joan's mom, we can see there is some real tension between the two of them.
 
Jenna: This fight is so interesting, because Joan's mother denies flirting.
She pretends like she's paying kind attention to the handyman for Joan's well being, and that she's being nice so Joan will have someone looking after things while Greg's away.
 
And this exchange where Joan says “This apartment has never had any trouble getting his attention” is defensive for Joan. She just had a baby. She feels tired and not put together, but it's also very true to her identity.
 
As Joan says later in the series,
“My mother raised me to be admired.”
Joan for sure knows how to get the handyman help just as Betty knows how to get a mechanic on the side of the road.
 
Steve: Her mother then pulls out a newspaper, which has the SCDP advertisement saying that it's an equal opportunity employer, and that they're looking to hire an administrative assistant.
I think Joan's mom is insinuating here that SCDP has forgotten about Joan already.
 
Jenna: Gail really ramps up her side of the argument. She throws insults.
She says, “Oh, yes, Joanie, everybody wants you.”
As if they don't. I mean, most of them seem to.
 
She reminds Joan she's not at her fighting weight, which is exactly what every new mother wants to hear.
And that was a really cruel, insensitive thing to say. But it did remind me of Joan talking to Peggy in the pilot.
This is a mother who's trying to tell Joan how to keep herself together, and how that's going to be advantageous.
 
But how fun is it to receive that, right? Like, put a bag over your head and evaluate your strengths and weaknesses, right?
That's Gail's philosophy talking.
 
So when she hands Joan the paper with the ad,
it seems like she's enjoying showing Joan how she's wrong. She can't trust that job.
She should just trust her mother's advice.
And I think Joan starts to doubt herself here, even though she's denying it.
 
Steve: And I think we also need to point out that no one speaks to Joan in this way.
If we think across the office and the various interactions she's had,
the way her mother talks to her is quite different and at the sharp end of the spectrum.
 
And we know that Gail doesn't approve of Joan continuing to work after having had the baby and wants her to default into that more traditional homemaker mother role.
And we also know that Joan has pushed back against that, and still has a lot of interest and focus on the office, even though she's been absent now for some time.
 
Jenna: And there is this bit where we find out Megan did invite Joan to the party,
but since it was a last-minute invitation, both Joan and Gail think Joan wasn't a real priority there.
 
All these little cuts are really adding up, I think, to make Joan doubt herself and her value and her importance to the company, just as she's realizing how very important that is to her identity.
 
Steve: I agree with that. And I think Joan's also very knowledgeable and pragmatic and understands that dynamic that if you aren't present in the office and life is going on for everybody, even if nobody's consciously trying to write you out, they're by default writing you out.
And I'm sure this gnaws at her every bit as much as her mother's comments.
 
 
Jenna: When Megan and Don show up in the morning,
it's a very different story than their usual power couple entrance.
Personally, I think Megan should Scarlett O' Hara herself up and just flaunt the fact that she really knows how to throw a party, but her feelings are still hurt.
 
And I think Don is nervous about how everyone is going to act after the party.
I love when he goes, “Have a good day,”
and she walks away from him and says, “Okay.”
I think that's what most people experience from Don Draper.
So when she does it to Don Draper, it's a little bit satisfying.
 
Steve: He seems kind of oblivious to how upset she is.
You know, maybe he is concerned about how his coworkers are going to react after this party, but I don't get any sense that he's aware of this cold air between him and Megan.
Maybe in his mind, it's all water under the bridge from the night before,
but it clearly isn't from Megan's perspective.
 
 
Jenna: Roger's greeting to Don as he dances and sings Frere Jacques is a fantastic John Slattery moment.
It's very rewatchable.
 
Don has no sense of humor, and he critiques Roger for making fun of wives.
Again, he should just flaunt this.
I mean, be like, yes, I have a hot wife. She's hip. She actually likes me, Roger.
 
But Don’s shame is leaking out about being seen in any real way.
And it was okay for Don to be seen in love when he was in the office making his announcement,
but now it's not okay when Megan shows more of herself.
 
Steve: I also like Roger's response to Don, because Don says, you know, we don't make fun of each other's wives here, trying to get all serious.
Roger fires right back, I wasn't making fun of her. I was making fun of you.
 
And then Roger points out something that I think is really his ace in the hole with Don Draper. He says, you're happy.
I think Roger views Don as being behind him on the same curve back to when Roger was so happy about Jane.
And remember, Don begrudged Roger all that.
And then, of course, Roger's got to bring it back around to where this is headed.
And he says, they're all great girls, at least until they want something.
 
Jenna: I find Roger's line so depressing.
That line, they're all great girls until they want something.
Because you can see Roger and Don expect women in their lives to center them exclusively, and when they don't, it's a problem.
 
And even if they do, it's a problem, because Mona and Betty both did all the things for Roger and Don, and that was not enough.
Don and Roger are both battling their backgrounds in different ways.
But they do seem to have arrived at very similar places.
 
Steve: I agree. And as well, I think that very comment could apply to the men just as equally, right. They're all great guys . . .
The only difference is they're defaulting to the primacy of whatever they want as being the default setting.
And the problem for them is when the women want something or diverge from pleasing the man.
 
And it exacerbates how ridiculous it is. They're married to women who are much younger than them, who are part of that new generation,
and they're still clinging to these old ideas and feeling like they're the ones who are hard done by.
 
Jenna: And the gap between their expectations as men of this time and women, because we remember them having a conversation about what do women want back in season one, and now that they have the age gap as well,
it creates a further divide, because Roger confesses to Don in this scene, he says,
“The other day, Jane asked me, which one's Mussolini?”
 
And Roger fought in World War II. So this is a huge gap between how they look at the world.
Don Draper would never have thrown the party that Megan Draper threw.
I think that exacerbating that divide is unsettling to both of them as they realize maybe it's not about corralling her into doing exactly what I want.
 
The world is changing underneath my feet, and it makes me uncomfortable. So they both seem to be trying to pretend that part away as long as they can.
 
 
Steve: The next scene takes us to Pete's office.
Roger and Don are late, of course, but we can see how tiny Pete's office is.
They're all crowded there on the sofa.
And as Roger and Don finally arrive, Pete's point of gathering them all here is to say, you know, what kind of impression does this office give?
 
It's not big enough to hold a proper meeting.
It doesn't say that this is a firm a client would want to be a part of.
He's angling to get a nicer office, and the office he has in mind is Roger's.
 
Jenna: And remember, Pete's office has a pillar. In the last episode, he got a bloody nose when he bumped into it.
I love his line when he goes,
“Do you gaze on the cement column and say, yes, I believe success dwells here?”
 
In the early seasons, Pete wanted too much too soon.
And when, while he could reasonably set meetings in other locations, I feel like this is a reasonable expectation to get a better office.
Maybe not Roger's, but a better office.
And there's no immediate resolution in the scene.
 
But Roger doesn't seem to have a better argument than, I'm a full partner, and, hey, buddy, do you want to step outside?
So his opposition is very clear, and nobody else wants to take a side in this particular moment.
 
Basically, the only reason Roger needs to have an office is so he can have private conversations with Joan or Don.
I mean, how do we get to a place where Bert doesn't have an office, and Roger doesn't have any clients?
 
Steve: Well, and I was going to say, you know, there's comedic value in the various partners in this conversation. You know, Pete wants to be recognized for his importance.
Roger is the one who would have to surrender his office.
Bert doesn't even have an office. So he's kind of open to the idea of, let's get more space, and then I could have an office, too.
 
Lane, trying to play peacemaker and keep control of the money, tamps down on the idea that they can't afford any more space.
For Roger, it's personal, and for Pete, it's increasingly personal.
Don seems sympathetic to Pete,
but at the same time, it's not like he can take Roger's office from him either.
 
Jenna: In the next scene, Harry puts his entire leg in his mouth as he talks to Stan about Megan's performance.
The fact that Harry feels like he can talk about this in the break room is really bad.
 
And Harry deserves every ounce of discomfort he's got coming to him because Megan walks in and overhears him talking.
Stan helpfully says, hi, Megan, and Harry reads that as a joke.
And so he continues makes it infinitely worse.
And it's been kind of easy to hate Stan, but when Harry is so awful,
Mad Men makes us cheer for him a little bit here.
 
Steve: Yeah, it's really hilarious because Stan has given the warning to Harry that Harry mistakenly assumes is a joke.
And then, of course, Stan has to provoke Harry further,
knowing Megan is sitting behind him. And then we can see all the neurotic impulses of Harry coming home to roost as Megan shoots him a killing look.
 
 
Jenna: Next, Lane has a pretty long conversation with this woman about the wallet he found.
It becomes a flirtation, and he tries to set it up so he can meet with her.
 
He's both a gentleman and a cad on this call,
but the conflict between wanting to run out and flirt with this woman and stay intent to his responsibilities, that seems to reflect his discontent.
We know a little something about characters who are both things at the same time.
 
Steve: And in the scene, the camera is only showing us Lane, so we're watching his physical reactions, his fidgeting and then his growing excitement and fascination with this voice on the other end of the phone.
 
There's a certain pathetic aspect to it, I think, in that we realize how desperate he is for this type of attention to pursue this sort of fantasy. There's really no reason to go down this path at all, but I think it says a lot about Lane's state of mind and,
as you mentioned, dissatisfaction at this point in time.
 
Jenna: Yes, the whole encounter seems to be about Lane wanting something he can't have,
but I do find it hard to believe he's this invested just from one photo,
and you wish he could be happy with himself as he is, and clearly he is not.
 
This is a big spoiler ahead, so fast forward a bit if you want to miss it.
Lane has a very significant line when the woman says she'll come by and Lane says,
“I'll be here for the rest of my life,”
and he means it to say I'll wait for you indefinitely.
But we know what's in store for Lane this season.
 
 
Steve: Back in Harry's office,
he's moping and afraid that his comment to Megan is going to find its way back to Don Draper when he gets requested to go into Roger's office.
 
He does the walk to the execution in Roger's office without even giving Roger a chance to speak, starts making his own case,
and Roger is completely perplexed by this,
and he admits that he made fun of Zou Bisou, which Roger, having done the same thing, immediately commiserates with Harry about that.
 
And you can tell they both thought Megan was extremely sexy in Zou Bisou, but they're also having some fun at Don Draper's expense.
Roger wants to solve the problem for Pete by letting Pete have Harry's office.
Harry's defensive, but he's also nervous and lacks confidence, so Roger keeps pushing on him.
 
When he can't get him to voluntarily commit to trading offices,
Roger then looks to bribe him and pulls out a large pile of money in his pocket, which turns out to be about $1,100, which is probably equal to a month's salary for Harry.
Harry whines a bit about the inferior office.
 
It's interesting how Roger is basically bankrolling the business right now out of his own pocket, whether it's bribing secretaries to pay more attention to him or bribing Harry to trade offices with Pete.
 
Jenna: I bet Roger could have paid Lane $1,000 to switch offices with Pete instead of Harry, but this is a lot funnier.
 
I especially like when Harry says, there's no window in there, and Roger says,
“You could buy yourself a beautiful picture of something to look at.”
 
Steve: Roger makes it clear that the discussion is over and threatens to have the conversation turned back to the topic that Harry originally thought he was called to the office to discuss.
 
 
Jenna: Next we see Joan coming back to work.
She's brought Kevin in a carriage and she's struggling with the door, and Meredith in reception does not help her at all.
 
I read something a long time ago about how people are constantly willing to hold doors and packages and assist pregnant women,
but not women juggling children in carriages,
which is often true, in an interesting discrepancy.
 
The greater insult to Joan here seems to be that Meredith doesn't even know who she is.
Meredith is played by Stephanie Drake, and you might have seen her in The Goldbergs.
She also wrote and starred in a 2018 short film called After Meredith.
Not only does Meredith fail to shower Joan with an appropriate welcome back,
she reveals that Scarlett and Clara are doing the books for Mr. Pryce,
which to Joan, seems to make Joan's mother right. They are replacing her.
 
And for Joan to lose this thing she's been missing,
this thing she feels good at and that makes her feel important,
it's soul crushing.
But she keeps it together and she goes in to face it anyway.
This woman brought her Scarlet O' Hara face.
 
Steve: In terms of Joan and her paranoia about being forgotten at the office,
this seems to be confirming every fear. So it really couldn't be a worse entree into the office than how this is going for Joan.
 
Jenna: And Joan has this line to Meredith saying,
“I know a girl who had your job who ended up with everything.”
And this, to me is so contradictory because of course she's talking about Megan, who got to marry Don.
 
I don't know if that's ending up with everything.
It's money, he's handsome, prestige.
But Joan knows he's a cheater.
 
She knows about a woman Peggy mentioned in season one.
She knows about Bobbie Barrett.
She knows about the fling with Allison. She probably knows about Faye.
 
So for her to see a marriage to Don as everything,
or go back to her former mindset of marrying a guy like that,
like that is the dream that's perfect for this moment,
because this is Joan going back to what her mother taught her about marrying well and not trusting herself for a second
that she can be happy as a professional, because she thinks they fired her and let her down.
 
And let's agree, Joan could be an efficient leader in any office,
but here she knows where the bodies are buried, and she feels like she matters.
I don't think Joan wants to marry Don.
 
But just like Peggy has imagined in the past that gorgeous women don't have any problems, Joan, I think, does default into this fantasy that marrying well will bring satisfaction.
And we know marriage has not brought that to her.
 
Steve: I viewed it as almost like a sniping remark or saying something that maybe on its surface, someone like Meredith would take to be, oh, you know, what a great thing to say or what a positive thing,
when really, you know, Joan knows the messy reality behind things.
And I wondered if it was perhaps a subtle shot.
 
 
Jenna: As Joan makes her way into the office, she seems cool and collected. And finally she gets the reception she wanted.
Clara and Caroline come in. Don makes an appearance.
 
There's a great moment where Megan is walking down the hall and turns to avoid Don.
But then she's facing Harry, who's obviously the greater evil.
So she ends up having to go back and say hi to Joan.
 
Steve: Don is very warm in his greeting to Joan, which kind of surprised me.
It's not that they don't get along or they don't see each other's value to the firm,
but this just seems to be Don Draper at his most effusive, especially compared to how cold he has been to so many other people on so many other occasions.
 
And then who shows up but Uncle Roger?
And he immediately starts checking out the baby.
Do you think Roger suspects this is his baby?
 
Jenna: I do. As Roger holds this baby, it seems clear to me he knows it's his.
He sent a bicycle – [Laughing] - Why would Roger have time to send an age appropriate gift?
But he's smiling. He seems proud.
He doesn't have a cigar, but he is holding a cigarette in his mouth as he's holding this baby.
 
And I really like Joan's line. She says the baby “has been keeping her awake and he needs constant attention,”
and if that's not a direct tell about who's the father of this baby . . .
 
I also wanted to point out that Joan makes what she thinks is a polite comment about Megan being a mother soon.
And Don doesn't seem averse to that idea.
They're watching Megan hold the baby, but Megan doesn't bite on that either, and she hands him back.
Did you expect Megan and Don to start having children?
We haven't seen them really discuss that.
And it didn't work out so well for Don and Betty.
 
Steve: Megan has never brought up the topic of having kids of her own.
So I guess as a viewer, I defaulted the other way that Megan doesn't seem to be at that point in her life where she's interested in that.
So to me, it felt a little inappropriate for Joan to start speculating along that line.
 
But it is such a common thing that people used to say, and I think it always feels a little inappropriate to me, because you just don't know what the circumstances of other people are.
And it's such a personal decision that it's interesting that in our culture, we're so casual about commenting about it.
 
Jenna: Agreed, absolutely.
As Joan goes in to talk to Lane, Peggy is left with the baby.
In the commentary, Matt Weiner says he likes the opportunity to put Peggy and Pete together around the issue of babies.
 
Neither of them can talk about that with anybody, but it is on their minds.
This is something that doesn't go away.
And I understand why these nods to it matter for their characters, because this is really the only way they can show us,
hey, this was an important thing in my life, and it pops up. It keeps coming back.
 
It doesn't just fade with the passage of time,
no matter how much Don Draper might assure us it will.
But it also feels like a plot reminder to the audience instead.
And I find it a little bit tiresome, like, yes, we remember this happened.
We don't really need this scene.
 
Steve: I liked this scene because Pete says he's not wearing a skirt when Peggy tries to dump the baby off on him.
And you can see Pete trying to assert his power and authority here, not to get saddled with the kid, but that's exactly what happens, because Peggy basically ignores him.
 
 
Jenna: So now we see Megan and Peggy working in the creative lounge, and Megan goes after Peggy.
I think really she's wanting to hit Don more.
 
Peggy said an awkward thing at the party,
but she also helped with a guest list.
And now Megan is shooting darts at Peggy because it's a lot easier than it is to express her hurt to Don, I think.
 
And it seems unfair to me that Peggy has to stand in for all the unlikable qualities in the office.
I mean, Peggy wasn't making inappropriate Zou Bisou Bisou comments or reenactments or anything.
And she apologizes for her comment, and she seems sincere.
 
And I think part of it is Megan is hurt that Peggy was right. Don didn't want a surprise party. Peggy knew it, and Megan didn't.
 
Steve: And I think we see that morph over the course of the conversation, because it does start off with what Peggy has said.
 
And then Megan suddenly shifts and says, who wouldn't want a surprise party.
And clearly she's talking about Don Draper at this point.
 
So it's really well acted here, I think, by Elisabeth Moss.
She is somewhat defensive, but I think we also see she has genuine concern here, and she's worried that her drunken comment at the party -
Peggy doesn't want to be that unappreciative boss, because that's exactly what she dislikes the most about having Don Draper as her boss.
 
But as Megan shifts into complaining about Don directly,
we can see Peggy doesn't have an answer for that. Don is who Don is,
and Megan's upset, and this is not something Peggy can get into the middle of.
 
Jenna: Megan goes on to voice her complaints about how you're all so cynical. You don't smile, you smirk.
And Megan did throw a fun party for people who are pretty cynical and resolved not to have fun.
So it's a fair critique.
But I think she's discovering this is true about Don, not just the rest of the office.
 
He's not going to follow her into that lighthearted fun the way she imagined he would in California.
And it's hard to be the consistently sunny person in a relationship with someone determined to be dissatisfied.
Ask Betty Draper a little bit about that.
 
And as Megan is talking through this with Peggy,
I think probably because she trusts her more than anybody else and she can be safe to express some anger here,
when she says, “Who wouldn't want a surprise party?”
 
We see exactly how hurt she is that Don didn't receive this as the gesture of love she intended.
And she hit every mark, just like Peggy did with a Heinz pitch and the bean ballet.
 
But Raymond is not about a bean ballet, and Don is not about the surprise party - or friends, for that matter.
So I think a big part of her hurt is realizing Don isn't who she wants him to be.
He isn't fun, he isn't flexible, and he's not appreciative.
 
And as you mentioned, Peggy has already felt that hurt from Don herself.
 
 
Steve: Megan excuses herself for the day, claiming that she doesn't feel well.
Meanwhile, in Lane's office, Joan is unloading all her fears and insecurities about what her future is at Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce.
 
Jenna: This scene between Joan and Lane is truly charming, and you wouldn't think they would be so compatible, but it's caring and genuine.
 
And here we have Don and Megan pretending to have this happy relationship,
and that that's honest.
But Lane and Joan seem to have something really authentic here.
Lane shares real business information with Joan.
He's not brushing bad news aside, he gives it to her straight.
 
And Joan is honest with Lane about her concern and how important her job is.
And that is not easy for a woman with this steel presence.
Lane gives Joan exactly what she needs.
He shares gossip and appreciation, a little bit of comfort and care that she's not getting from her mother.
Lane reenacting Megan's dance is also highly rewatchable.
 
Steve: Yeah. He shows such genuine concern,
and it really allays Joan's fears, I think, because she can see how sincere he is and his comments about how Scarlett and Clara can't hope to cover her work.
It just is the exact opposite of all the fears and insecurities Joan walked in the door with. He puts them all to rest.
 
And then we can see what a razor's edge Joan is walking in, that she's emotionally breaking down.
And this time it's out of relief that her worst fears actually haven't come true.
 
Lane succeeds in getting her to chuckle and laugh a little. And I agree with you. It's a really sweet scene.
 
Jenna: There is a moment when Joan talks about Don,
and we've never seen her say anything about how attractive he is.
And her guard is down. So she says, I can't imagine how handsome that man must be blushing.
And that's what you would say to a friend.
 
And Lane looks down and away.
It's very small, but it's there.
When Joan says this,
it seems like he's disappointed and maybe a little hurt to hear her see Don this way.
Lane knows Joan isn't looking at him that way, and it's a small detail, but it gives away something important about his character.
 
I think Lane wants to be able to be the charismatic ladies man he sees in Don,
but he keeps getting feedback to say, you're not that.
 
Steve: Yeah. And I think, you know, with that little physical gesture, I think that is brilliant. And I also like his quip when he says he saw Don’s soul leave his body,
which is light.
It's humorous and it moves the conversation away from perhaps one of these aspects of appeal that Don Draper has that Lane Pryce will never have.
 
Jenna: Next, Harry goes to Pete and tells him they're switching offices.
But this doesn't please Pete.
I always appreciate scenes with Harry and Pete because they are each so self obsessed.
 
So here Harry is regretting the loss of his window in his office and wanting to hide from Megan.
And Pete is mad that Roger didn't symbolically acknowledge Pete's worth by handing over his own office.
 
Neither one is actually talking to the other.
I could really watch a scene of every day at the office where Harry and Pete air their grievances and just talk past each other, because that's what always happens.
 
Steve: I had to chuckle because Pete's rifle is in the box of his things that the secretary brings over to Harry's office.
 
Jenna: And we're 100% sure that Trudy won't let Pete have that in the house. So that's why it's there.
 
 
The next scene seems a little selfish of Peggy because it's damage control.
She goes in to Don.
She doesn't want her boss to be mad at her for the treatment of his wife.
 
And at the same time, I think Peggy is showing care for Megan when she's honest. She says, I'm sorry for my part in upsetting her.
And I think Megan wants to be alone.
I think Peggy believes that is what's best for Megan right now.
 
And Don shuts it down, saying, you don't know her at all.
What did you think when you said that?
 
Steve: I just took it as Don Draper saying, stay out of my business. I don't. I'm not soliciting your advice. I don't want your advice.
And you don't. You don't know our relationship.
Don knows better, and this is private.
 
And again, it's another thread, I think, that ties back to this party that Don Draper never would have wanted and didn't want.
And it's more radioactive fallout that is just completely unwelcome from his perspective.
 
So I get the sense that for Peggy, this feels a little personal and abrupt from Don Draper.
I don't think it was personal to her at all. I think he would have snapped at anybody who said that.
 
Jenna: I agree. I think that's true. He would have snapped at anybody.
But the line feels dishonest to me.
Don doesn't really know Megan,
and Megan doesn't really know Don.
They're both just pretending this is all happy and perfect, in spite of the fact that it already has so many cracks in it.
 
But Don does go right home to see Megan and care for her,
which maybe he would have done for Betty, but maybe with Tom, just a lot of sighing and obligation attached to it.
Don does really seem invested in this idea that Megan is his life and they're happy and that's all that matters, even if it's not true.
 
Steve: And at the risk of underestimating Don Draper,
I still wonder at this late stage, does he really understand the depth of Megan's hurt here, and the roots of it going back to his rejection of her right after the party in the bedroom?
 
Perhaps that's another source of his aggravation with Peggy that others are cluing into this rift between Megan and Don.
And he himself is late to realizing just how big it is.
 
Jenna: Right. The worst thing for Don Draper is to actually be seen to be known.
 
 
In the next scene, the man who lost his wallet shows up to claim it.
Lane is disappointed that he doesn't get to see the girl,
just the man who sees the girl.
 
And Lane is wearing the costume of a gentleman.
He's refusing to take the money the guy offers,
when, of course, he has stolen the photo from the wallet.
 
He's pretending to be a proper English gentleman when he's unhappily married.
He's in love with America.
He's easily led into this flirtation, so much so that he steals a random photo so he can stare at it later, I guess.
So we have all this pretense.
 
Joan is pretending to be a happily married new mother, and really, she can't wait to come back to work.
Megan is pretending her new marriage is incredibly happy.
But if the party was her real self,
it's clear she's never been that person in the office.
 
And we know Don can pretend to be one thing while having a secret about who he really is - multiple secrets about who he really is.
This show just keeps reminding us how painful it is to hide your true self.
 
So here's Lane standing there looking like he is honest and forthright, because he's returning the money.
And really, he has a dark side, too.
 
Steve: Yeah. And Lane is well aware that he's been anything but a true gentleman. So the fact that the guy who owns the wallet is dressed in a cheap suit from the 1950s, he's overweight.
He looks like the kind of guy who spends a lot of time at the horse racing track.
He's certainly no gentleman himself.
 
So the compliment to Lane you'd think would be a good thing.
But I think we can see the shame Lane feels, because he knows what thoughts are going through his own head and knows that this label is inappropriate.
 
Jenna: So Don follows Megan home.
The apartment is still a giant mess from the party,
which I kind of find it hard to believe, because it's still really, really gross.
And they would have had to live with it that way all day Sunday.
It's Monday afternoon. I don't know.
 
Anyway, so it just reminds us, right, of the mess that is their life when they have the office there, I guess.
 
Megan's in a robe, which she quickly discards and pretends to be cleaning.
Then everything shifts. And this is an uncomfortable scene, because it doesn't seem especially healthy.
I mean, Megan is legitimately hurt and angry, and Don did not like the party, and that is a wedge between them.
So they turn to sex and role play and they hide in that because it's more comfortable than a conversation.
 
Steve: I've been kicking at Don Draper all episode,
but I will say here that I do feel his exiting work to go check on her and then asking her how she is.
I think these are subtle male apologies in that often unsatisfactory form.
 
But these are indications of his care and concern for her, which has been wanting,
and she's not accepting them as sufficient or even acknowledging them.
 
But I have to guess that Megan can see that there is concern here, and at least that's a good sign in the midst of her hurt and anger towards Don.
 
Jenna: I think on first watch, I thought this scene was Megan being really smart and managing Don.
Instead of pouting or making him face his issues,
she finds a way to draw him in and re establish that closeness,
even though it is avoiding a lot of important things between them.
 
Steve: I could buy that. And I think especially when she takes off her dress and can see that, you know, she has a lot of appeal for him.
And we know that, you know, their physical relationship is a very active and prominent part of it.
 
And as you pointed out, you know, it's not like they've spent a lot of time together doing anything.
But I do get the sense that she's asserting her power and control over him in a way.
But it's interesting that he meets that with his own sort of control.
 
And as they sort of shoot barbs at each other right before things get physical,
you know, Don basically forces a kiss on her.
And then that seems to be the moment where the tension breaks between the two of them.
Up until that point, it wasn't clear to me which way things were going to shake out.
 
 
Jenna: Next we see Pete sitting in his new office.
He plans a glorious hit on Roger.  
He asks Clara to pencil in Coca Cola on Staten island at 6 am the next day.
And we frequently dislike Pete, but this does seem like a very earned revenge against Roger.
 
Steve: Yeah, it's a great scheme by Pete here.
And as we'll see, Roger's gonna fall for it hook, line, and sinker.
 
 
Jenna: At Don and Megan's apartment.
They're on the floor, cuddled together,
and we get a truth call out when she says, I don't think those people like me, meaning the people at SCDP.
And Don protests that's not true.
 
And I see him trying to reassure her, but he brings this condescension that is too reminiscent of his talks with Betty.
He says,
“Being a secretary, you don't know what goes on.”
And I would argue the secretaries absolutely know whatever is happening.
 
He's trying to say whatever problems exist aren't about Megan.
And that's true. But her unhappiness is not just with the office,
but how she blames the office for affecting Don.
It feels like she thinks if Don in California would have loved the party.
But Don, working at SCDP, can't let himself enjoy it.
 
Steve: It's interesting because the white carpet seems symbolic of a couple of things. Not just that intrusion of the office into their personal life in a way that's detrimental to their relationship,
but also at the end of the scene when Megan says, oh, you know, we'll have to replace this white carpet.
 
And Don mentions that, you know, it was never practical.
And Megan says, well, I thought you wanted it.
And he confesses that he just wanted her to have what she wants,
knowing full well that it's completely impractical.
 
And it seemed to me to almost be an exposition of just how there are so many things they don't know about each other or don't understand about each other,
and they're in the process of working through those.
 
And in this particular case, it's been a bit painful.
But this is what happens in the early parts of relationships. You know, there's things that have to be learned and explored and discovered between the two people, and they simply haven't had enough time together to clear all those out.
 
Jenna: I did think that was a little sweet that Don wanted to make that happen for her, even though he understood that it wasn't wise.
 
I think Megan's attitude about the office here is such a contrast with Joan,
who is devastated to be shut out of the place she loves.
And also Peggy, who is thriving in this work role that gave her a new life beyond the Brooklyn one her family planned for her.
And here's Megan, and she's not okay in this environment.
 
I raised this issue earlier, but whether she's a copywriter or a secretary,
she says she's a creative person who dabbles in painting and acting.
So why, if she lives in New York,
would she take this particular job answering phones and tracking down chafing dishes?
I mean, shocker: corporate life isn't a great fit for a young, late 60s French Canadian aspiring actress.
That's just - why would you stay there?
 
And Don is just as much tied to that business.
It's his lifeline, just like it is for Peggy and Joan.
So for him to compare the office to an infected foot, that seems so disingenuous for him.
And I mean, fair - there are people doing awful things.
Thank you, Harry. We see you.
But we know this office isn't worse than any other.
Even the opening shot this season with the protesters, we can see that.
 
So as we get this conversation progressing and Don says, I don't really care about work.
That is a shocking statement from him.
I mean, he's been relaxed and checked out, but who is this man if not the consummate creative ad guy?
He has no other identity he wants to claim long term.
 
So in this moment,
he seems very much into the fantasy of loving Megan and that's all he needs.
That is new for him.
I mean, he had it with Betty for three minutes or so, but it passed.
I wish he had Peggy in the room to call bullshit when he pretends he doesn't get all his satisfaction from this job, because we know he does.
 
Steve: Going back to how Megan ended up in the office, I think that's probably - she needs to earn, right?
How do you have enough money to live in New York if you're not earning?
So that explains how she gets into the secretary job.
 
But I agree.
Now that she's the wife of Don Draper and money's no longer a problem,
it doesn't make a lot of sense to me for her to be earning a small salary as a copywriter if that's not what she's really destined or interested in doing.
And I think we'll subsequently see that that is in fact the case.
 
I also agree with your call out about Don saying he doesn't care about work. I have a real difficulty squaring that with his behavior to this point in the series and his almost single minded focus on work.
 
You know, as we saw his marriage break down and then this new relationship.
Work is always there, at the very least in the background and quite often still in the foreground.
So is it aspirational of something or a place he's trying to get to himself?
Or is it just something he's saying to allay Megan's fears and upset in the moment?
 
Because when I think of Don Draper, the first thing I think about is work.
And that, to me seems to eclipse so much else in his life.
 
Jenna: I agree. And I think he is trying to convince himself that this is true.
I think he wants to believe about himself that he isn't just his work.
But I don't think we can believe it about him.
 
 
Steve: The next domestic scene cuts back to Roger's, where he's getting up early to make the Coca Cola meeting on Staten Island.
 
Jenna: And I think we see this is where Don is probably headed with Megan, right?
I mean, Roger tilted his whole life upside down for Jane,
and now she asks what time it is, and he tells her to shut up.
I mean, it's not a romantic fantasy. It's all empty.
 
Steve: Yeah, the shine has come off Roger's marriage to Jane.
 
Jenna: And we see Pete taking the train home.
And he reveals that Trudy and Pete are looking at an in-ground pool for their house in the suburbs.
So that's Pete giving in to Trudy's vision of their new life together.
 
Just like the new city apartment she had to have for their young couple identity,
even if that made him uncomfortable, that her parents financed it.
 
And now for all his barking, he follows her out to the suburbs.
And I think he thinks he's supposed to want this.
But this isn't happiness for Pete. The baby in the suburbs aren't exciting.
And the pool keeps Trudy happy for a minute, but there doesn't seem to be any joy in this for Pete.
 
And I know he is a hard man to feel sorry for, but we recognize him.
He's a man doing things that people do,
but he's becoming invisible to himself.
I don't envy the woman who skins his rabbits in a cabin for him or anything.
And I don't think he would last a week there anyway.
But he is unhappy here.
 
Steve: He does seem to get some smug enjoyment about what it conveys of his wealth and success that they he can talk about in-ground pool.
And his seatmates there on the train seem duly impressed because they know exactly how expensive that pool is.
But I agree with you,
if that's where Pete's getting his satisfaction, it's of a very shallow, fleeting character.
 
And I agree with you. I don't get the sense that life in the suburbs as a family man is ticking all his boxes.
So it's funny how in many ways he seems to be a Don Draper from season one, maybe without the philandering at this point,
but someone who's not happy with his life for all his professional success.
 
Jenna: And there's a lot in the fandom about how sweet Trudy is and how she's the perfect wife.
But the truth here is that Trudy either doesn't register Pete's unhappiness, or she doesn't care because doing what People do makes her happy.
 
She's happy in the way that Betty Draper wasn't in this role,
and she expects Pete to do his part and, you know, to press on,
whether he likes it or not.
There is a way of doing things, and he will comply.
 
I think she is ambitious for him and gives him helpful advice,
but at the same time,
Pete does not seem fulfilled by following expectations, and she doesn't entertain any time to talk about this.
 
 
Steve: Back at Lane's place,
he's saying goodbye to his wife as he heads to work, and she asks him for some money.
He has to avoid flashing the picture he pocketed from the lost wallet.
And that just further emphasizes the lies and fibs that Lane has in his world.
 
Jenna: Why do you think that picture is so important to him to keep?
 
Steve: I think it's a fantasy and an escape for him from a world that he views as dreary or isn't as stimulating as what he hoped for.
And I think this also goes back to his membership in the Playboy Club.
This is the exciting life that he would love to have, but he doesn't.
 
And I think he clings and flails trying to retain elements of it or fabricate elements of it, in the case of the picture.
 
Jenna: We get a quick scene with Joan and her mother riding the elevator to soothe baby Kevin.
They're in their robes in public, so we know Pete would disapprove.
 
In caring for this little guy, they're in it together here, in spite of all their tensions with each other.
 
We also get a quick scene the next day as Megan and Don walk into work.
They're happy again together. Everything seems like it's put right.
 
Steve: as they enter the lobby of Sterling Cooper Draper Price. It's full of African American job applicants for that fake advertisement they put in the newspaper to embarrass Y and R.
Bert Cooper is angry and upset.
Pete is sympathetic.
Lane doesn't feel they have the budget to hire anybody,
and Roger is just sort of taking in the fact that it's a joke.
 
The thing that stood out for me in this scene is how compelling just the hope and humanity of the people in the lobby is.
These are people who've been shut out and blocked and discriminated against.
And here's this flash or glimmer of opportunity.
They've shown up in large numbers.
 
So even as the partners have, for the most part, a somewhat selfish perspective on it, the humanity of the people in that lobby is just really compelling to me as a viewer, when you realize what they're trying to do in their lives, and they have no idea that the origin of this ad is a joke to embarrass another firm.
 
Jenna: Yes, the office ends up accepting applications for secretaries. It's 1966 and it's shocking it's taken this long to get here, but they finally got here.
 
Steve: And perhaps didn't intentionally get there,
but events and circumstances and coincidences have brought them to this place.
 
And I think it raises an interesting question as to how much does it matter or does it not matter how you get to that point,
just the idea that you've now gotten to it, and there's no going back from this point.
But here again, we just have that winds of change blowing through the offices here of our characters.
 
 
Jenna: The closing song is You Don't Have to Say You Love Me by Dusty Springfield, released in March of 1966.
 
The lyrics include the promise, “I'll never tie you down,” and we can see so many of our characters feeling tied to things that maybe they once aspired to or wanted,
and now they're questioning whether or not those things are in fact good for them,
or whether they are keeping them from reaching for other things they've now decided they want instead.
 
In the commentary, Matt Weiner says that these scenes were shot from episodes one and two as if it were one long movie.
So because episodes one and two were written by Matthew Weiner and directed by Jennifer Getzinger, some of the scenes with Lane in the cab and the wallet were intended to be in episode one, and they ended up getting rearranged into episode two.
So I think the way they assembled it works really well.
 
But you can also appreciate how these episodes go together really well back to back, and watching them as one whole sequence I think is maybe more satisfying than separating them.
 
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Steve: That's it for this episode of All Things Mad Men, From Chip and Dip to Zou Bisou. Visit our website, Mad Men C to Z dot com to vote for your favorite Sterling Lines and to share your opinions on our Double Dip questions for each episode.
 
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Steve: Thanks for listening, everybody.