Mad Men C to Z Flight 1 Transcript S2E2

This is a full, human-edited transcript for our Mad Men C to Z podcast episode for Season 2, Episode 2: Flight 1.
You can listen to the podcast episode here.

Please visit our episode page for Flight 1 for more details, vote for your favorite Sterling Lines, and offer feedback on our Double Dip questions.

Mad Men C to Z S2E2 Flight 1 Podcast Transcript
 
Jenna: Hi, I'm Jenna.
 
Steve: And I'm Steve. Welcome to All Things Mad Men, from Chip and Dip to Zou Bisou.
 
Jenna: We started this podcast to connect to fans like us who pick up something new each time you watch the show. We break down each episode of Mad Men, from the pivotal moments to our favorite lines.
 
Steve: Be advised, our discussions may include spoilers so we can talk about character arcs all the way through the final season. We won't be gratuitous with spoilers, but they do pop up from time to time.
Let's get started with Mad Men, C to Z.
 
Jenna: Today we're talking about Mad Men Season 2, Episode 2, Flight 1. It was written by Matthew Weiner, Lisa Albert, and Robin Veith. It was directed by Andrew Bernstein.
This episode opens on February 28th in 1962.
 
We open with really overt racism and white discomfort as Pete and Trudy are in a hallway in a neighborhood they've never been in before. And it turns out it's a party at Paul's apartment.
 
There's a party song playing called Crooked Woman by Ed Henry, and the line says, it's impossible to love a woman who likes to play those nasty two timing games - because the women are the ones radiating the two timing problem in this series.
What stood out to you at the beginning of this scene?
 
Steve: It's in an up and coming area of Montclair, which maybe hasn't gentrified quite as much as some of them would hope at this point.

 
Jenna: As they enter the party, Pete and Trudy make their way over to Harry and Jennifer. We heard a lot about her in season one, but this is our first appearance of Laura Regan as Jennifer Crane.
She played Agatha the precog in the TV series Minority Report.
 
And this is a short scene, but there are so many details. You can see Jennifer and Harry are a little bit snippy with each other, and Trudy's relieved to have found people she knows and trusts enough to ask where to put the coats.
 
And Pete is ready to schmooze and work the room. So there's so much happening here as the camera is panning around to the different guests.
 
Steve: Yeah, and we've got Peggy there with a boyfriend, just behaving like the young woman she is, hipster Paul in full flight with his fancy glass, his fancy drink, and a neck scarf on, riffing with anyone who'll listen to him about where they are and how great it is and all the things that make him hip.
 
Jenna: Paul really wants to be seen as in his element here as the host,
and we see Peggy in a red dress, which is unusual. Usually it means she's out of place, like when she borrowed Joan's outfit last season. But here she looks really happy.
She's just met some guy at a party and it feels like she belongs here more than Pete and Trudy do in this environment.
 
Steve: Joan is there, but her boyfriend, the doctor, is not. He's on call and we get an introduction when Paul introduces his girlfriend Sheila, who's African American, to Joan.
 
And Joan has something pretty cringe to say when she says that she never would have taken Paul for being so open minded. And then she also drops to Sheila that she's an ex of Paul's.
 
Jenna: Sheila is played by Donielle Artese, who has been in Days of Our Lives and Insecure, and she also directed several episodes of Jane the Virgin.
 
Paul never misses an opportunity to show off for Joan. He shows off for everybody, but especially for Joan. And their last scene together was on election night, and they danced without music and it felt like they had a peace between them.
 
But we really get a whole nother vibe here as Paul introduces Joan to his girlfriend. Paul gets called away and he looks at both of them and says, don't talk until I get back.
And Joan starts out saying, one day you'll drive into the Food Mart in a station wagon and be a customer. So like she did with Peggy,
assuming that being a wife in the burbs is a goal for everybody.
 
And Sheila bursts that little bubble a bit, saying that she did grow up in the area. So then Joan decides she needs to wreck things.
And we know she's really aiming at Paul, but Sheila's taking all the damage. It's such a mean girl comment, even without the racism, which is far worse.
 
And Sheila is just standing there trying to be polite to Paul's friend. So she goes, love your purse.
And Joan's reaction is so mean girl there too. A girl who has everything. She makes a face and she preens and she hugs it and goes, thanks, I just got it.
Like, I'm the absolute greatest because of my accessories.
 
And that's all I thought about this scene until I realized there is a payoff about this same purse later in the episode.
 
Steve: Yeah, it's definitely not a good look from Joan in this scene. And in terms of the development of this character, we're starting to see maybe the dark underside or some of the less admirable qualities that Joan possesses as well here.
 
It's an interesting scene because you see integration at the same time as you see the subtle racism that still exists, you know, amongst this. group of people at this time and place. So there's a duality to the scene that's interesting.
 
Jenna: Speaking of dark undersides, just when we thought Ken was back on track, being a good guy for his honest treatment of Peggy,
here he is being a hound dog in the hallway with a woman who's had too much to drink. And Sal and Kitty are standing giggling nearby.
 
Pretty soon, Ken approaches Paul and he notices a typewriter in the corner. And we learn that Paul stole it from the office and a secretary almost got fired over it.
 
Steve: Paul's not very apologetic, and nobody seems too much in a twist about the fact that he's taken it.
 
We also get a scene in the hallway, where Peggy shuts Eugene right down. It's kind of funny because we've got this vibe of Peggy as a young woman, you know, who's dating, but simultaneously, she's not leaving her job behind altogether either.
 
And she mentions that she's in the persuasion business and she's disappointed by Eugene's presentation, which is a funny way of saying that to him.
 
Jenna: Yeah, it did seem like she was having fun being at the party. It is a pretty rude dismissal of him. You're kind of proud of her for having the confidence to go to a party and not need a man.
 
But just like Annie in the booth, you don't have to handle it that way. It seemed too harsh.
 
Notice that after the Kennedy Nixon episode, Peggy didn't participate in the party. But in the next scene, we see her sleeping in. She was part of the whole party.
 
And it's important to notice, too, that on the date with a guy from her neighborhood last season, he said, you can act like you're from Manhattan, but you don't look like those girls. And at the beginning of this episode, we see her Manhattan life claiming more of her.
 
It's not just that her pregnancy weight is gone, but her behavior is changing away from something typical from her old neighborhood, too. The morning after, and she's sleeping in her party dress and the phone is ringing, and she just puts a pillow overhead and lets it ring.
 
Steve: And her apartment's a mess, too. So if she was back in the neighborhood, living in her mother's house, there's no way she would be allowed to be a slob. But now she's off on her own and can behave the way she likes.
 
 
Jenna: The next morning, March 1st. Don and Roger are talking about the bad traffic because of the John Glenn parade. John Glenn was the first American to Orbit the Earth on February 20, 1962, in the spacecraft Friendship 7.
What did you think about this elevator conversation?
 
Steve: I think it illustrates the new generation again, where Roger's not buying into Glenn as a hero. And we could debate the merits of that,
but clearly the young generation perceives him that way.
 
So it's another interesting break where Roger's on the old side and saying no one was shooting at him, and basically alluding to World War II and what makes a hero.
 
And it almost feels like Don is halfway between worlds. He's got one foot on each side, so he can understand and get a sense of Glenn as a hero.
But I also get the sense he's got a little bit of sympathy for Roger's views, although he ends up in opposition and sort of countering Roger's points in the elevator.
 
Jenna: Yeah. Roger cannot stand anybody else getting attention, even a national hero. He says, it's incredible what passes for heroism these days. And, I'd like a ticker tape parade for backing out of my driveway and going around the block three times.
 
And I feel like maybe Don wants to sass Roger a little bit. He says he's a winner. Square jaw, false modesty. Looks like he just took off his letterman jacket, which is an interesting flip from a guy who made that whiny complaint about the astronauts for the Right Guard commercial a few episodes ago.
 
He was saying, who is an astronaut? Some guy peeing in his pants. They want a cowboy. So it doesn't necessarily feel like this is entirely genuine and maybe a little dig at Roger.
 
Steve: Yeah. And just on a personal note, to me, John Glenn is this old senator who did some stuff in his youth. So it's a fun time capsule for me to imagine him as this dashing young hero, the first American to orbit the Earth, rather than this old politician shuffling around Washington.
 
As they get into the office, the crowd’s gathered around the radio, apparently watching the parade or talking about the parade. It quickly becomes apparent that they're not talking about John Glenn. They're talking about American Flight 1, which crashed near Idlewild earlier that day.
 
Jenna: Yeah. Roger approaches the group saying, excuse me, this is a place of business. Colonel Glenn will be on Earth for the rest of his life,
which is not the case. He went back to space in 1998 as a 77 year old, becoming the oldest person traveling to space.
 
Yes. Instead, they are, in fact, listening to news about the American Airlines crash.
Don immediately jumps into work mode. He says, pull all the Mohawk ads so they won't show up beside news stories about plane crashes.
 
And many of the office guys, including Pete, start making terrible jokes about the crash. But most of the people are truly stunned by the horror of it.
Did it seem surprising to you that everything shut down because of news about a plane crash? It seems kind of common in, in our day and age.
 
Steve: Yeah, I think that's just a nod to the historical context. When the Boeing 707 went into mainstream service, it really opened up the jet age.
 
And American Flight 1 is the first crash with significant casualties. You know, it's loaded with passengers when it crashes. There had been a couple prior crashes of 707s, but they were on training flight, so only the crew died.
 
This is the first mass, mass casualty event with an airline crash and then happening right there in New York City, sort of the center of the jet age. One could argue at that time we need a little backstory to understand the context. But within that context, the writing makes perfect sense.
 
 
Jenna: The next scene takes us into Bert's office and this is a thing we should be tracking: Bert is often eating some type of weird food and here he's eating cottage cheese with ketchup. And that's apparently something that Nixon ate in real life.
 
A note about the show, Weiner has said that for most characters, if the actors genuinely smoked in their real lives, then their characters would smoke herbal cigarettes on the show. And his thought was that he wanted it to look natural and non smokers look fake.
 
And you notice that Pete and Trudy and Bert don't smoke. Usually Peggy doesn't.
And since Robert Morse, Bert Cooper, was a Broadway performer, it makes sense that he wouldn't be smoking. It's terrible for your singing voice, but apparently eating gross stuff is fair game.
 
So Bert, Roger and Duck are talking about Duck's call with American Airlines, and how American Airlines is going to want to take their advertising in a new direction after this tragedy.
 
Steve: Yeah, it does feel a little cold blooded in the face of this tragedy. And already the business implications are percolating down.
As we came out of the prior scene, already the jokes in pretty poor taste were coming about the crash, and the bay turning plaid and the rest of it.
 
When the scene morphs into Bert's office with Duck and Roger,
we can see that this cold bloodedness extends to the senior leaders of the company. They're already looking at the business implications of this and the possibility, that it will put American Airlines account into play.
They're not dwelling on the tragedy. They're focused on how this may affect Sterling Cooper and may represent an opportunity for them.
 
 
Jenna: In the next scene, we see Pete on the phone looking somber, and you realize how rare it is for him to be talking to somebody and doing most of the listening. He's not pushing anything on the other person.
 
He walks out of his office with a drink. He stares at the noise around him, and he goes past Lois into Don's office.
He says, sorry, am I bothering you?
 
And thankfully, Don is not a jerk. In this moment, he asks what's going on in a very reasonable way.
It turns out that Pete's father was on the plane that crashed.
 
Pete is looking for some sort of reassurance or direction, and he has come to the guy who least knows how to provide that for anybody else.
Don, like Peggy, is not really the nurture person.
He says he's sorry. He pours him a drink.
 
Basically, I think Don has five tools for bad situations:
Avoidance and denial, drinking, payment,
telling people they'll be okay if they move forward, and running away.
 
And so here Pete gets the drinking solution.
I feel like Pete is a lot more honest than Don here. This is real disbelief that you go through when something that changes your reality so instantly.
He goes, everything is exactly the same.
Knowing everything is completely upended, but the world is going on as if it's normal.
 
And this line where he says, am I going to cry?
And Don is so completely not up to this conversation, he goes, you've had a shock. I wouldn't worry about what you're feeling. Yeah, Don never really does worry about what you're feeling.
 
 
Steve: Yeah. And I interpreted this scene too, as reflecting the ambiguity of Pete's relationship with his father.
Due to the nature of their relationship and the problems that we had glimpsed to this point in the series, it really seems to set him into a place where he just does not know what to do, and he's seeking some sort of guidance or reassurance.
 
It's interesting that he turns to Don for that, because again, for obvious reasons, maybe Don's not the ideal choice. This relationship is over and everything will be frozen exactly where it is.
 
Jenna: There's a lot of overt conversation in Mad Men around what people do.
Don says, go home and be with your family. It's what people do. We understand that Don is living in a costume, and part of that is acting as others would as often as he can.
 
Pete seems to be interested in emulating Don, and he wants to please the higher ups anytime he can, that it's an advantage anyway. So he asks, is that what you would do?
 
And Don goes, there's life. And there's work, but that is such a lie. The only real thing about Don's life is his work, which is selling fake images about life.
But he does at least put a hand on Pete's shoulder as he leaves. The fact that Pete's biggest interest here is, Is what I'm doing appearing okay? Am I doing the thing that looks the best? is such an interesting response, but it's very on brand for Pete, I think.
 
 
Steve: The next scene has Don joining Bert, Roger and Duck in Bert's office to talk about the possibilities of the American Airlines account.
Basically, it's Duck pitching the idea that this is a great opportunity,
but what they need to do is get rid of their conflict, which is Mohawk Airlines, which is an account that Don is pretty emotionally wed to.
 
From Duck's perspective, it's $7 million versus $1 million. It's an easy decision, but interestingly, Don is the one who has some qualms about jumping from Mohawk. What did you think of this?
 
Jenna: Bert, Duck, and Roger don't know that Pete's father was on that plane. Don also does seem to prefer a sure thing. We know that with the Nixon campaign being out of pocket and uncertain, he was concerned about that, too.
 
Duck goes, it's a chance at American Airlines a serious foothold. And Don goes, oh, a foothold!
So we understand that Don has some reasonable concerns. But Duck accuses Don of being all about himself, which of course, he is.
He says, I know how you had it in your head:
The president of American Airlines saw a Mohawk ad and says, I love that work. Get me that guy. Well, I'm sorry it didn't play out that way.
 
And instead of getting upset, Don makes a really reasoned argument about why they should keep Mohawk Airlines. They pay their bills on time, they trust us, they like our work.
They don't deserve to be thrown out the door for a wink from American.
Having Don be the person who shows loyalty, that is definitely - it seems unusual for him.
 
Steve: Yeah, I think it's interesting because it's an expression of Don's values. And for someone who shows a lack of loyalty and lack of integrity in a lot of circumstances in this strictly business relationship,
he seems to be displaying exactly that.
 
Don is also correct when he points out that all they've gotten from American is a wink. There's nothing guaranteed or locked in here, so it's really chasing a lottery ticket.
 
You can see the allure of that to the other three men, that they would happily trade what they've got for the chance at the much larger American Airlines account. And Don's come out on the other side of the fence on that equation.
 
Jenna: The next scene takes us to Pete's house. He has gone home to be with his family.
There's Pete's mother, Trudy, and his sister in law, Judy, making some empty talk, the way that people do.
 
Pete left work to stand around awkwardly with his family. And his mother is genuinely grieving and not quite processing everything right.
She looks up and she sees an elephant figurine, something that, you know, has been sitting there for years, and she never really saw it.
And she goes, what's that?
 
And Trudy is nearest to it. So she turns around and Pete's mother is like, take it, I want you to have it. So now Trudy is stuck holding onto this weird statue. There are already plenty of elephants in this room,
apparently.
 
Pink elephant paradox - and this is a pink elephant - is that when you try to suppress a bad thought, it becomes more prominent. So the idea is that you need to face it and deal with it. But nobody in Pete's family is very great at that.
 
Steve: Yeah. And I think Pete's mom displays the manners and raising and behaviors that we'd expect from somebody in high society. So she is grieving, she's upset, probably more than anybody is, as we'll discover, given Pete's father's relationship with his own children.
But she's going through the motions and trying to function as best she can.
 
You start to see the dynamic between Pete and his brother.
And you can see his brother's focus seems less about the emotional loss and more about the financial implications of this and the fact that the Dyckman Trust was not solvent.
So there's a pressing financial issue that's going to come to the fore now with the passing of the father, and that's where his attention is.
 
Jenna: Yes. So Bud Campbell, Pete's brother, this is his first appearance, played by Rich Hutchman. He was born in Belfast, Ireland.
He was in Space Hospital, and a bunch of other stuff.
 
He's also a Lowe's salesman in Crazy Stupid Love. And I'm going to take a light tangent here: that movie was done by Dan Fogelman, who's also responsible for This Is Us. And it stars Steve Carell, Ryan Gosling, Julianne Moore and Emma Stone. And if you love weirdly specific dialogue, like Mad Men, and things that are a combination of painful, beautiful honesty, you might also really like that movie. If you haven't seen it, you might want to check that out.
 
 
Bud's information to Pete, as you say, is that their dad has spent their inheritance on clubs and dining.
A quick exchange reveals that Pete was not expecting to inherit a lot. Anyway, we know he's the son out of favor because his father didn't approve of his advertising career.
 
But both of their parents had money and now it's mostly gone.
What did you think about - they're both like, mom, it's fine. I took care of everything. I mean, why do you think they didn't tell her the truth?
 
Steve: Well, she's grieving the loss of her husband at this point, so, I mean, there's no point piling it on it. It's not going to change anything. So I, I just think it's a courtesy and a kindness to allow her to get through the initial grieving really quickly.
 
Jenna: Bud's wife, Judy doesn't get a lot of lines, but I appreciate her character, too. She does seem to be trying to impress with pretentious sentiments. She goes, I like to offer a nice bouquet of thoughts.
And I found that line hilarious, because it's not that it's so out of line, but for once it's not Pete who's the person making it about himself.
 
 
Steve: The next scene cuts to Don coming in the door and Betty greeting him. And then Betty lets him know that Carlton and Francine are coming over to play cards. Don's not really in the mood.
He's going to go lie down.
 
Jenna: I don't know. Maybe we've all wanted to cancel a social obligation here and there, but Don does not have hobbies and he doesn't make friends, which I'm sure makes it a lot easier to start over and hide.
 
I guess his car sales, car racing interest - that kind of peeks out a little bit over the years, but otherwise it feels like everything is have to with him, except for work.
 
When he says, I just want to go lie down, Betty tells him to pull down the chenille bedspread, or it will leave marks on his face and then their friends will know that he was sleeping before they came over.
So again, it's all about image with Betty.
 
Steve: You know, Don's biggest hobby are affairs, so he does have activities outside of work, but not at home.
 
Jenna: So Francine and Carlton show up, and Sally, who is maybe eight or nine at this point, is making and serving alcoholic drinks. And Don is giving her instructions on bartending like she's an adult.
 
So he talks to her like this is about swim safety or some kind of important knowledge that she needs to acquire. And Bobby is sitting on the couch eating M&Ms.
 
I feel like we should track the amount of times the Draper kids are told to go watch tv. I think this might be the first instance. They head out of the room.
And Carlton tells a gross story about being attracted to the underage babysitter, and he expects Don to join in, which he doesn't.
You just said that Don's hobby is affairs - why do you think he won't engage with Carlton about this?
 
Is this part of his discretion, or the underage babysitter is against his code? Or do you think he's just resolved against not getting close to somebody like Carlton or getting close to anybody? What do you think?
 
Steve: I think it's D, all of the above.
Carlton's damaged goods. And he knows Francine and Betty talk a lot. So if anything gets out of Carlton, into Francine and comes back to Betty, that's a risk. So he should keep his trap shut there.
 
I think he plays his cards close to his chest. So even if he were attracted to a babysitter, I don't think he'd share the information with anyone. I think he'd keep them to himself.
 
And I also think, you know, we've talked about the kind of women he's attracted to and the kind of women he hasn't pursued when he's had opportunities. And it does seem that he's got a certain type that he's looking for.
 
And it's not the weak, the young, the inexperienced, the naïve, you know, he’s excited and turned on by women who can offer something physically stimulating, but also mentally and emotionally stimulating to him, I think. And some babysitter doesn't tick any of those boxes.
 
And then I'd also just say it's a high risk environment, right. He's sitting in his house, in the living room. He doesn't know who's going to walk up and overhear this. And I wonder if this just suggests the lack of discretion and thoughtfulness on the part of the Carlton character. He's blabbing away here in Don's house.
 
Jenna: Well, and the last time we saw Carlton, he was hitting on Helen Bishop. So we know discretion is not really in his toolkit, either.
 
 
The next scene takes us to Peggy at her family's house. So Katherine Olsen, Peggy's mom, is played by Myra Turley. She was in Lady Bird, her first role was in the TV show Dallas, and she has been on tons of shows since, including Friends, Breaking Bad, Arrested Development.
I think she is perfectly cast in this role; I cannot imagine any other actress here being half as effective.
 
And Peggy's sister is played by Audrey Wasilewski. She has done a ton of voice work in animated series and video games.
 
You might also have seen her in Big Love or in Red; she is the businesswoman who fires a rocket launcher at John Malkovich.
 
So the mom and Peggy's sister, Anita, and her husband and kids all live in this apartment in Brooklyn. And Peggy makes a visit. She returns the vacuum she borrowed.
 
She's there visiting, and her mom starts talking about never seeing her and how she should go to church more often.
And Peggy replies, it doesn't mean the same thing it does to you. It's another way she's pulling away from the family she's grown up with.
 
What was your impression of finally getting to see where Peggy came from?
 
Steve: Yeah, I think it's just striking how different the world she's seeking and to some extent has obtained is compared to where she came from. And I totally agree that the scene really displays that break.
 
And she's in an entirely different universe. And she comes back to this world, and her mother's trying to get her to do the things you do in it.
And it's clear that Peggy is not buying into that and pushing against it.
 
I also wanted to agree with, you know, we had listened to the commentary, and they were complimenting the artwork, the set, the costumes in this scene. It really is stellar and beautifully shot, and I think contributes to conveying that this is an entirely different world in another time and place.
 
Jenna: There are so many great details in the show.
 
So Peggy and her sister Anita continue a conversation. And Anita argues that Peggy should make the effort to go to church to make her mother happy. And Peggy says, I don't want to, and I can make my own decisions.
 
And she's really trying to separate from being the younger sister controlled by her family.
And Anita comes back with, the State of New York and the doctors didn't think so. So here we're getting clues that when she had the baby, she was maybe institutionalized for a time, which is a pretty big piece of information that we haven't heard very much about,
 
again, which I think is a flaw, and we should have known that. But anyway, pieces are starting to come together.
 
Steve: Yeah, I don't know about the institutionalized, because that would have meant an extended absence from work, which would have been problematic.
 
I thought she was more just alluding to the fact that, you know, a young unmarried woman getting pregnant is all judgy, judged by the doctors and everyone else, and is clearly, you know, in their opinion, indicative of this inability to make good decisions because again, it's always the unwed mother's fault and responsibility for an unwanted pregnancy back in 1961, or whenever she was pregnant.
 
Jenna: It's her fault. Or something.
 
Steve: Or something. Yeah. It takes one, right?
 
 
Jenna: So back at the card party at Don's house, Bobby and Sally are sitting on the stairs listening.
It's not that the grownups are talking about anything so interesting. I don't know if Xers and Xennials may remember that adults used to have lives that were not focused around their kids’ activities and kids were expected to keep quiet and stay out of the way.
 
So they're just sitting there on the stairs listening because people are over in their house and this might be really interesting. It's not like they have iPads or anything else to entertain them.
Again, a really short but very funny thing.
 
So Bobby comes in and reaches for some candy and says he was scared, and Don takes him upstairs.
Betty is unreasonably harsh about him lying here. She tells Francine and Carlton she would have been way more afraid of her father than going to sleep.
 
And Carlton, who has not had a likable bone in his body in the series to this point, says,
I hated going to sleep when I was a kid.
 
And it's just, I mean, as an adult you love the opportunity to sleep, I think. But as a kid, there is something about that. It's just, it seems like you're missing out and everybody's doing really fun stuff and you have to go to bed.
 
And so I love that he connects and empathizes. It did really feel like you were missing out on cool mystery, grown-up stuff as a kid.
And Betty says she doesn't care what they do upstairs. She just likes a few hours of quiet.
 
Don't we all, Betty. Don't we all.
 
Steve: Yeah. It comes across as quite selfish, her overreaction at his supposed lie that he's afraid.
 
She gives the story about him tracing the George Washington picture and again is really harsh about, you know, the dishonesty of accepting praise for something he, he didn't create himself.
 
And then we also see the - I don't know what the word is, toughness or brutality with which she's going to admonish and correct the child, who's quite young. And, you know, this is a very common sort of thing that pops up with children. So it's, it's not the best look for Betty. And it's in front of two visitors.
 
Jenna: Yes. And this is a truth call out, too.
Francine tries to go along to get along with Betty here. She says the book says they start fibbing at this age; they want to see if they can make it come true.
 
Nobody else really seems to feel like Bobby's sin is such a big deal.
And Betty is so critical. It feels like she is defaming Bobby to take shots at Don's dishonesty.
 
Such a turn from when we saw her in season one, episode nine, Shoot,
when she was shooting at the pigeons, and determined to defend and protect her family.
And here, as you say, she's talking so harshly about her own child to the neighbors. So this sour turn with Betty as a parent really starts to become apparent here, I think, in this episode.
 
Steve: And I think there's a little insight into Don's character here, because I think he sees the harshness with which Betty treats Bobby.
And it bothers him, because he's coming from a background where he was treated harshly by the people who were raising and caring for him. And he knows what it feels like to be treated harshly.
 
So I got the sense that there was some real sympathy in Don, which, again, we can argue about how much empathy he feels for others.
I think he clearly feels it for Bobby.
 
Jenna: I think that's a good point.
And I think that Betty owns her sour response to her children. I mean, you really want her to be better to them, for them.
 
But in a way, you can also see, if Don weren't treating Betty the way he does, she probably would not have this reaction either. It's really Don causing this in her. She's defensive, and she's on guard for bad behavior in a little boy, because she doesn't want him to grow up to be the way that his father is, right.
 
I can't excuse her behavior because obviously it's not okay. But I do feel like Don's looking at her like, wow, you're being really, really unfair.
It's like, yes, Don, this is what happens, because he does – he makes everything around him toxic, whether he's trying to or not, I think.
 
 
Steve: The next scene cuts back to Peggy saying goodbye to her mom and sister. And her sister asks her if she wants to say goodnight to the children before she departs.
 
She opens the door and there's three kids, including a young baby in a crib. And Peggy doesn't really say or react to any of the children. One of them calls, refers to her as Aunt Peggy, and then she closes the door.
 
We don't see any signs of affection or connection to any of the children in the room.
 
Jenna: Yeah. Okay, so mega spoilers ahead in this conversation. Now is a great time to fast forward if you're watching Mad Men for the first time, because this is going to take a minute.
I do not love this intentional misdirection on Weiner's part.
 
He still hasn't shown the audience what happened after Peggy had the baby, so we don't know where it is. And now it looks like he's being raised with Peggy's nephews. Except, spoiler, he actually isn't.
 
That baby is Anita's, who was born around the same time Peggy gave birth. And we're going to see that in subsequent episodes. So her sister sending Peggy in to say goodnight is a guilt trip reminder for sure.
But it's not Peggy's son in there.
 
I don't really get the purpose of faking us out like that. I don't think it could have been socially acceptable for Peggy to mother her son as a single woman for her workplace or her family.
 
I would have liked to have seen more about what happened in those moments in the days and the weeks after she gave birth. What did she go through? Weiner takes that away from us. We don't get to see it.
 
And then we have this fake out. Because you do think that that baby is being raised with her family.
 
Steve: Yeah. It sets us up as the viewer to believe that is the baby. So we still don't know.
 
Jenna: And there's a lot online about this and there are a lot of beliefs that – which is what I thought for several rewatches that for a time the baby was raised with her sister, but then placed for adoption.
 
But we do have clarification that in fact, you know, Peggy didn't give birth to anybody in that room.
 
 
Steve: It's now after the party and Don and Betty are cleaning up.
Betty makes a casual remark, and Don mistakenly states that he's not sure that Carlton's happy, which then you can tell, grates on Betty.
 
And she starts to riff on how he should be happy and grateful after what he did. Clearly, she's ramping up to get into a discussion that's really about Don and Betty's relationship.
 
Don begs off and says he doesn't want to fight. Betty takes out the garbage and lights up a smoke outside to create separation between her and Don.
This is really the first scene we've seen in season two where there's evidence of the tension in this relationship between Don and Betty. What were your thoughts?
 
Jenna: Yes, Don says, Bets, I'm not going to fight with you. I'll say whatever you want me to say. When she goes outside, he seems to be just happy he shut her down.
 
All of this is her pushing more and more to claim her apology and bring this into the light. And Don, of course, doesn't want to do that. He also seems to think that he's being good to her by being faithful now, and that that's enough, that he doesn't need to do anymore.
 
And the brokenness between them emotionally, not just because they won't address the infidelity, but because he doesn't offer anything emotionally nurturing to her along the way. The best he will do is,
I won't fight with you.
 
It's not enough, right? It can't ever be enough. I think a lot of Mad Men viewers seem to have a lot of hate for Betty and how unlikable she is.
And she is starting to get really hard to like.
 
But you also have to look at her as a figure. What would you be? This is the predominant relationship in your life. It's with a person who's not honest with you, who's not kind to you, who doesn't invest in your feelings.
I don't know how else she really could respond, other than just being a plastic figure, which I think she's been for a long time now.
 
Steve: Well, and I think it also is a hint to us that Don's apparently being good. We're not aware of any relationships or affairs he's conducting at the present time, and even that cessation of his bad behavior isn't adequate or sufficient to mend the wounds he's created.
 
Jenna: Yeah, good point.
 
We get a scene where he goes into the kids’ room and he sees Bobby hugging Sally as they sleep, which is this opposite level of affection and closeness than he actually has with his wife.
 
And also indicates that Bobby was scared. He went to his sister for comfort because he didn't receive it from his parents.
 
 
Steve: We cut to Pete in the bedroom with Trudy, talking about the last argument he had with his father, the last time he saw them, about dog breeds.
 
It's good writing, I think, because it's so typical of - we suffer these losses, and you do end up with these sort of odd last moments or conversations about which in hindsight don't matter at all, but in the moment was worth an argument between the two of them.
 
It turns out in this one, Pete was actually incorrect. It gets back to Pete talking about how he feels and that when he woke up, he felt fine. And then he remembered the loss it's an interesting scene again, because I think it just emphasizes this question of, you know, what should people do?
 
Jenna: It also seems very authentic, these moments of how something has shifted in your life that's so profound. You have a moment of, oh, I felt like everything was normal. “And then I remembered.”
 
That's such a powerful, relatable feeling. And for Pete to be expressing it is maybe more interesting than if somebody else who's normally very in charge of their emotional well-being expressed it.
 
I saw an interview with Vincent Kartheiser about a conversation he had with Matt Weiner about his character. He was saying, oh, he had these big dreams of one day going up against Don Draper.
And Matthew Weiner told him, Pete never wins. That is his character. He never wins.
 
And of course we know that's not always true in the show. But here, remembering his last argument with his father, who he wanted to impress, even over something trivial, it turns out he was wrong.
 
Trudy tells him, you should be thinking about the good times.
Forgive me, Trudy, if I am a bit skeptical about the number of good times Pete has had with his father.
 
Steve: Yeah, I had the exact same thought. You know, what good times? Because we, we've seen no evidence of them. Nobody's brought up any. Are there good times?
 
 
Jenna: This next scene might be one of the all time biggest burns in the entire series of Mad Men.
We see Joan gossiping in the office, and Paul confronts her to say he's been avoiding her for three days because he has to tell her.
She says, oh, I'm not going to tell on you for stealing the typewriter.
 
And he says no, he's mad about whatever Joan said to Sheila. Joan's racism comes out here. It's not pretty.
She goes after Paul for being phony. What did you think about this?
 
Steve: I don't know why Joan has to be so cruel and aggressive here. So it's not that she's wrong.
 
Jenna: Me too. That was my question. I agree.
 
Steve: Yeah. It's not that she's incorrect, but the point is, why? Because in their relationship, it's Paul who wanted to continue.
She broke it off. It just seems cruel and needless here.
 
And, and I wondered, you know, where is this pettiness, this need to slap Paul down so hard, so fiercely? Where, where is it coming from?
 
Jenna: I had the same question and we can't talk about it being the biggest burn without actually saying what it is. So let's go.
 
She says, “It's so obvious why you're seeing her. A supermarket checkout girl? Conversation must be stimulating. Ooh, lettuce costs a nickel.”
And Paul says, you're just jealous.
 
“Because you're the one that got away? Out there in your poor little rich boy apartment in Newark or wherever,
walking around with your pipe and your beard, falling in love with that girl just to show how interesting you are.
Go ahead. Which part is wrong?”
 
I mean, it is cold. It cuts at all the pretensions he's trying so hard to share with the whole world, and how he's trying really hard to be something unique and special, desperately, to prove that to Joan.
 
She has no mercy. I really don't understand why she goes out of her way so much to carve him up.
 
Steve: Is it really just her critique of herself she wants to impress? She wants to be special? Is her relationship with the doctor all that in a bag of chips?
 
This sort of viciousness and lashing out at Paul completely needlessly - because the fact that he's trying to puff himself up, I mean, everybody sees it a mile away. And they're all joking and teasing about it.
 
Anyway, I wonder if this is Joan's critique of herself. And really a reflection of her dissatisfaction at this moment in her life where she's ended up. How special is she as the office manager?
How special is this relationship that she's desperately trying to pitch and make into something wonderful and great and permanent, with such a bright future?
 
Does she really feel that that's what it is?
And all the poison and vitriol coming out of her here directed at Paul. It could be spun back around onto her from herself in her dark thoughts that she doesn't share.
 
Jenna: It's an interesting possibility.
But she does point out, I'm not a phony.
She is pretty straightforward. Peggy talks about - the whole office knows her mission is to find a husband, and she's fun. In that order. And she's not hiding any part of that.
 
Everybody understands that she's looking to marry somebody rich, especially a doctor. She doesn't seem to apologize for that.
 
Like Betty: My mother wanted me to be beautiful so I could find a man and marry well. I don't think that she apologizes for that ambition.
I agree. And we know. Spoiler, spoiler. That where she is with this relationship is not headed in a great place.
 
But I don't know that she is truly dissatisfied with herself at this point in her life. It feels like it has to be expressing some other kind of upset. But I don't know that she's that angry with herself.
 
Steve: I don't agree with the statement she's not a phony. I think that's exactly the crux of the problem here.
Yeah. In many ways, what you see is what you get with Joan.
But what's the most important thing to her in her life right now? What is she seeking? A real relationship.
 
And is that what she's getting with the doctor? But to me, that's the ultimate phoniness, because that's something that is so personal and core to what she's seeking. It's why she's broken off the relationship with Roger, which had its amusements and pleasures.
 
Jenna: But wait, is she seeking a real relationship? I don't think so. She's seeking a wealthy man to marry her. That's her - that's what she's seeking right now. And she doesn't apologize for that.
 
She isn't necessarily seeking a real relationship. So she didn't cut it off with Roger, because it wasn't real. She cut it off with him because she needs to get married to somebody wealthy because that's her job,
that's her mission. So I don't think she's disappointed that she doesn't feel something real.
 
Steve: I think. I don't. I wouldn't describe her as disappointed. I would describe her as unsatisfied.
And maybe she doesn't consciously realize it, but what she's seeking isn't going to get her where she wants to be.
And I think in her subconscious, she knows exactly that fact. And it's a source of fear, apprehension, unease.
 
Jenna: That's an interesting theory. We'll have to track that and see how her realizations develop over time and how early that happens. I'm curious to think about that more.
 
Steve: Add it to the list in this episode of just people not behaving too well.
 
 
Jenna: And that takes us as a perfect segue into the next scene where Duck comes into Pete's office. He found out about Pete's father. He offers condolences and seems supportive.
 
Pete says to Duck, your old man was in advertising, right?
My father wasn't. And it turns out I really didn't know anything about him, except he didn't like advertising.
So he again, he's just learned from Bud that his inheritance, whatever there was going to be of it is spent.
 
Don couldn't offer more than a drink and a go home, that's what people do. But Duck steps in and says, I'm sure he was proud of you. Some people have trouble saying it.
 
And then he invites Pete to be part of the American Airlines team, including a business meeting that night.
So just when you thought Pete was getting a little bit of nurturing, it became about work again.
 
Steve: It's interesting too, because Pete doesn't take the bait here at this point. And we know how ambitious he is, how he'd love to impress Duck,
but he's discombobulated, you know, with the death of his father. His conflicted feelings opts out at the end of it, saying, you know,
he doesn't think he should do it.
 
He hasn't cried yet. Again, this uncertainty about what should he be feeling, how should he be acting?
Duck looks uneasy with it and he's obviously not going to push it or try and do the hard sell, and mentions that what he asked was inappropriate and retreats.
 
But we're still left with Pete kind of in this gray space trying to figure out which direction he's going with his feelings and his actions.
 
Jenna: Yeah, for all Duck's accusations of Don picturing taking the credit for luring in big accounts, Duck seems just as prone, and Pete, for that matter, to getting ahead of himself when he thinks about the glory he's going to collect when he meets whatever threshold comes next.
 
 
The next scene is so short that I missed it multiple times through viewing the series. You see the break room lockers and a hand pulling out a red purse, Joan's new red purse.
 
And I like how they established that this happens. Remember at the Nixon Kennedy party, Peggy's stuff got taken from her locker,
so you're just left to wonder, okay, who's stealing now in the middle of the day? And that's the whole scene. It's really short.
 
 
Steve: From there, we cut to Don in his office.
Lois has screwed up some paperwork again.
Roger's making it clear to Don that he needs to have a heart to heart talk with Mohawk's Henry Lamont so that they can remove the conflict and pursue the American Airlines account.
 
It's clear that this decision has been taken by the senior managers.
Don makes a last pitch argument asking, you know, what kind of company are we going to be?
 
And Roger just makes it clear the decision's been taken. You get a chance at American Airlines, you take it. End of discussion.
 
Jenna: I know he just made partner, but Don is a creative, not an account guy. So it feels to me more like Roger or Duck should take this meeting with Henry Lamont.
 
I know it's better drama because now Don, who doesn't support the move, has to deliver the bad news. But it does seem like something that Roger would normally do himself. So I'm not really sure why Don has to go to the meeting.
 
When you pointed out Don pushing back, he says, what kind of company are we going to be?
Did you notice - he said, we. He's part of this instead of an island at his job. So that was an interesting tell.
 
And Roger has this quippy (answer): the kind where everyone has a summer house. And it's funny, but it feels disappointing to Don and to us, I think, maybe, that money is driving everything.
 
Before, Duck listened to Don's perspective, and he said, I can't believe this. Like, that Don would give up the money.
And here with Roger, Don says, I can't believe I look like an idiot for wanting to be loyal to these people. They just have really different ways of looking at the situation. And Roger sides with Duck here.
 
Steve: Yeah. And it's clear Don has an emotional connection to the Mohawk account that they lack. To them, it's just a number in the ledger.
 
Don's got this connection to it. And I agree with you. It doesn't make sense to me that the creative head is the one to go let the account go. That this would definitely be something you'd kick over to accounts.
 
But for a guy that we criticize so much for his lack of ethics and his lousy values, when it comes to this business loyalty to a client they wooed in the door and made big, bold promises to, Don's got a real problem now of doing a 180 and kicking him out the door.
 
 
Jenna: So we see Pete start to call Trudy. Then he looks over at Peggy.
Ultimately, he goes into Don's office with what is supremely poor timing.
 
And tenderly, Don barks at him. It's not a good time. Which is amazingly harsh, even for him, because, yeah, Don has to go have a hard meeting, but he knows Pete has just lost his dad. So, you know, who is it not a good time for here, Don?
 
I got the feeling that Pete was going to talk to Don about whether he should go to Duck's meeting, which really would not have been a good conversation with Don at that moment. But Don will not be there as a mentor for him. He's not seeking that relationship. He rejects it.
 
And on his way out, Lois helpfully suggests to Pete, if you want, you can leave him a note. People do that.
That's amazing.
 
Steve: Yeah. And. And you can really see the look on Pete's faces. He's in a bad place, and he really needs some support from Don in that moment.
 
And Don misses it entirely, or is just so wrapped up with his own frustration with this Mohawk situation that he won't see it.
So you do feel a little sorry for Pete, of all people in this scene, because he needs someone to talk to, and he gets shut down.
 
 
Jenna: The next scene gives us that purse payoff.
People are giggling around the bulletin board, which is now hanging over the copier that now lives in Peggy's office, that Joan put there.
 
And the people are scurrying away when they see Joan coming. She finds a copy of her driver's license with her birth date circled on the board. So we can infer that this was Paul's revenge.
 
She was born February 24, 1931, which would make her 31. She would have just had a birthday. Fun fact: this would make Joan a Pisces and a sheep in astrological charts, neither of which seem to reflect Joan's traits, which are things like being shy, dependent, sensitive, gentle and artistic. Just saying.
 
And Joan goes to Peggy, who's sitting at her desk in her, quote, office.
Did you see who did this?
No, Peggy answers. I never would have guessed you were in your 30s, she offers. What did you think about this?
 
Steve: I think this gets back to the fundamental dissatisfactions that Joan has. And maybe she's not a phony just because she doesn't go parading around her age, but she's now past 30, pursuing a husband in the midst of a growing youth movement in the early 60s.
 
Jenna: Joan gives this lofty speech directed at Peggy, but it's not Peggy's fault. Peggy just has to receive it.
About how people should not bring their personal problems into the office, which we know Peggy doesn't.
 
Peggy doesn't try to assert power over Joan here. She agrees with everything she says. But I feel like it has to be a little bit satisfying to Peggy to see Joan on the receiving end of this.
Just a little bit.
 
Steve: There does seem to be a little smirk going on there.
 
Jenna: You're the new girl and you're not much, so you might as well enjoy it while you can.
Indeed, Joan.
 
And also, how's that copy placement working out? Yeah,
I think maybe she had that coming.
 
 
Steve: The next scene is Don meeting with Henry Lamont from Mohawk to tell them that Sterling Cooper is letting them go.
 
What I love about the writing in this show is the characters are intelligent. Henry Lamont knows exactly what's going on here. Do you think I'm not going to make you say it?
Don delivers the line, letting them go.
 
And then Henry Lamont vents his frustration. And what makes it even more painful is Henry makes it very clear that, you know, he's almost embarrassed to say this, you fooled me, with all the talk about you're going to be a big airline and we're going to work with you and be your partner and all the rest of it.
 
Of something that I think Don would say to Henry Lamont, I agree with you 100%. This wasn't my decision. I don't want to do this. And now I'm the one who's got to fall on the sword here.
So it's a very painful scene. And I found myself really feeling for Don in this moment.
 
Jenna: He's very well cast. He's likable, he's disappointed, but he keeps it professional.
He's not saying anything that's untrue.
He doesn't drag it out, and that makes it hurt worse.
 
And it's so obvious that Don feels guilt. He knows it's poor treatment.
I guess his policy of I try not to think about it when it comes to infidelity isn't as solid when it comes to clients. He's definitely feeling bad and guilty here.
 
 
Steve: We then cut over to Duck meeting with American Airlines’ Shel Keneally. He's making his pitch for the account.
Shel is holding his cards pretty close to his chest, and Duck is trying to get some sort of stronger commitment or progress here other than just the wink that they initially got.
 
Pete walks in and spills his news that, you know, his father was on the plane. But Pete's part of this effort to try and rebuild confidence in American Airlines.
 
We really have clarity now that Pete has made his decision and he's opted to do the thing that Duck asked and pursue the business on behalf of Sterling Cooper. What was your take?
 
Jenna: Yeah, you just see the moment he pivots right into the sales pitch. He says, should you decide to bring your business here, there will be someone on your account who knows exactly what you're going through.
Maybe something good can come out of this.
 
And the guy's just like, um, I will pass that along.
You know, how awkward for him.
You can see Duck's eyes flicking back and forth. He loves this. He's just gained an advantage.
 
He moves them on to dinner to talk more about it.
It really feels a little bit like everybody has sold their soul for American Airlines, at least in terms of the partners and account guys.
 
Steve: Yeah. And in the commentary from Weiner, one thing he said I thought made a lot of sense here.
We've got the creatives and the account guys diminishing the contribution of the other and always underestimating what it takes and how complex and difficult it is.
 
And really, this is a scene of this totally unorthodox, unique situation of trying to leverage a tragedy into some sort of advantage, that these account guys are working their dark arts of winning a client.
 
So it's a nice little peek of really how both the creatives and account guys are oversimplifying and underestimating what it takes for the other,
because we've seen how creatives are doing something more than just, you know, what monkeys could do. And now we're starting to see how the account guys have to work their magic and pull the levers in order to pursue things.
 
 
Jenna: The scene shifts back to Don, who is still in the restaurant where he met with his Mohawk client - former client. And a waitress comes toward Don, signaling interest in him, and he declines.
It doesn't feel like it's a hard decision for him to decline here.
 
We talked about racism with Joan and Paul and Sheila, and you can see that's intentional in the show.
There's an essay in a book of New York Times contributors about Mad Men called Mad Men, Mad World, and it talks about the absence of Asian characters in the series, except as the comedy caricature with the family in Pete's office in the first season, or this waitress being presented without her own story as just being simply available to Don.
I'll put the details in the show notes if you'd like to read more about it.
 
Steve: I think the biggest thing I take from this scene is just Don trying to be good again.
Given his proclivities, one might think, well, he's not feeling great.
There's this beautiful woman who's obviously interested in him. He could avail himself of that, no questions asked.
 
And yet he opts not to. He's not the same Don Draper we've seen to this point. He is trying to be good.
 
 
Jenna: The next scene takes us to Peggy's family's Catholic church. So she went to Mass to make her mother happy. The mass is in Latin. The Vatican II council that changed the rules allowing Mass to be said in any vernacular language would take place soon after this, in 1964.
What did you notice, especially about this scene?
 
Steve: To me, this scene is just a compromise of families. And again, something I like about the writing, the realism of sort of how things land. Peggy doesn't want to go to church, so she sits there, she holds the baby while the others take communion.
 
Jenna: Yeah, she won't take communion because you wouldn't do that if you hadn't been to confession. So we can infer that she hasn't she's doing the Don thing. She's moving forward. She doesn't want to talk about this or face this.
 
So holding this baby, she doesn't soothe it or face it or say anything to it. She bounces him a little bit because he starts to cry, but it just feels like she's keeping so much distance.
 
And when we think about the beginning of this episode, she's in a red dress and she's flirting with a new guy and partying with her friends.
And at the end, she's back here with the family she grew up with in a church. She doesn't buy into holding her sister's child.
 
And you can see this alternate path laid out in front of her. This is who her family meant for Peggy to be - this dutiful sister who attends church and helps out with the kids while she brings in some money from her day job.
Her work is never supposed to mean more to her than this.
 
Steve: Yeah. And I think, you know, this denotes Peggy as a modern woman at this time, like she's embarked on something else. And, you know, she's not thrilled with the compromise, but this is the deal she struck to sit there.
 
But it's clear how miserable it would be for her had she been trapped in this world.
And I think it just probably for her reaffirms her decision that she is on the right path and pursuing what she wants to do. And it was the right decision.
 
Jenna: I totally get that. And at the same time, I'm watching her hold the baby and I just, like, hug the baby. Peggy, just be nice to the baby.
And she won't. And she doesn't. And it's really, really hard to watch.
It's really hard to watch.
 
 
The closing song for this episode is Temptation is Hard to Fight, by George McGregor and the Bronzettes.
 
Steve: It's a soul song, as soul was on the rise, and would soon become one of the most popular music forms in the United States.
 
 
Jenna: We'd like to thank Michael A. in Pflugerville, Texas, for listening to and supporting our show.
The positive podcast reviews make a huge difference in helping other people find our podcasts. So if you like our show and you're willing to write a positive review on any podcast platform, we really appreciate it.
 
Steve: That's it for this episode of All Things Mad Men, from Chip and Dip to Zou Bisou. Visit our website, Mad Men C to Z dot com to vote for your favorite Sterling lines and to share your opinions on our Double Dip questions for each episode.
 
Jenna: You can find us on Instagram and YouTube at Mad Men C to Z. And please listen, like, and subscribe. That's what the podcast's for!
 
Steve: Thanks for listening, everybody.